New Mac Pro - 2018?

Discussion in 'Apple Desktop Hardware/Software' started by elvis, Apr 5, 2017.

  1. Hater

    Hater Member

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    make RGB version and sell for $200
     
  2. flu!d

    flu!d KDE Neon 5.16

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    If I make a few will you buy them for $100.00 a pop?
     
  3. OP
    OP
    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Professional display expert Vincent Teoh got a hold of the Apple Pro XDR display. When Apple announced the display at WWDC they said it could compete against a Sony broadcast reference monitor. Vincent decided to compare the two side by side.



    A summary of his comments:

    Cons:
    * Extremely expensive for the technology on offer
    * Suffers all the limits of IPS technology
    * Poor contrast ratio of 1000:1 when local dimming failed
    * Bad blooming in small bright areas resulting in muddy visuals
    * "XDR mode" HDR tone mapping inaccuracies and early rolloff making it poor for HDR content creation or accurate grading
    * Poor screen uniformity resulting in "dirty screen effect"
    * Poor colour accuracy at indirect viewing angles
    * Poor black levels - blacks look grey and washed out (even with latest fixes)
    * Dark scenes look bad (even with latest fixes)
    * Poor skin tones and foliage colours, even in SDR
    * Lack of professional display calibration options

    Pros:
    * Out of the box calibration was good for SDR (<3.0 dE2000 - not great, but acceptable)
    * Bright scenes that aren't too bright (i.e.: don't set off the tone mapping issues) look good
    * Good, sharp resolution

    His final comments were: "For it's beautiful design, the pro XDR may find its way into the office of a divorce lawyer". I guess all the talk in this thread about the "Pro" in "Mac Pro" meaning doctors and lawyers was correct. Media professionals, you won't find anything worth your time or money here.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
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  4. millsy

    millsy Member

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    That's pretty disappointing, if they'd met their aspirations it might have been a bit more interesting
     
  5. OP
    OP
    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Given that Apple are not display engineering experts, and given that companies that are *the best* display engineering experts in the world are struggling with IPS to make it perform in an acceptable way for professional grade colour accuracy, I would say that their aspirations weren't just lofty, but bordering on delusional.

    I want to know who OKed the press release saying that this display would compete against the world's best broadcast reference display. I mean, I know Apple Marketing suffer some pretty intense confirmation bias, but for something that can be measured with industry-standard devices and objectively compared, you can't just market your way around that. Simply put, if you're marketing a device this expensive to a top end market and making grandiose claims, you slap a probe on the damned thing and measure it against the thing you claim it can match.
     
  6. Hater

    Hater Member

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    I wonder who supplies the panel in the XDR. If one of the Sony reference monitors uses the same panel, I can see the quote being somewhat relevant. Doesn't have to mean it competes with one of the bad boy BVM-E*'s, just marketing speak, y'know how it is

    Just seems weird for them to specifically say a Sony monitor, makes me think that maybe Sony uses the same panel in one of their Sony Professional range of monitors
     
  7. millsy

    millsy Member

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    Elvis will happily tell me if I'm wrong here, but if they're targeting professionals they'd be going for the defacto standard, which as far as I'm aware in that space is Sony
     
  8. aokman

    aokman Member

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    You are thinking old school, the panel is 6K which isn’t far removed from the iMac 5K panels. The backlighting becomes it’s own beast now enabling HDR independently with local dimming and 1000nits sustained brightness. It is no easy feat with active cooling required just to cool the panel and driver components themselves due to the sheer power output. You are essentially turning the display into a very bright light / mini heater while locally dimming and displaying an image.

    People compare the Apple display to the new ASUS which is a stupid comparison as the physical density of the pixels blocks more light and has big impacts on light output.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
  9. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    This silly person has me on ignore, and hasn't seen the video posted that demonstrates the real world limitations of this marketing drivel.

    Poor guy doesn't even know how wrong he is yet. Kinda feel sorry for him.

    Current BVMs are OLED, which means LG panels. But at real pro levels (not "Apple Pro") there's more to it than just the panel.

    All the same, the XDR is IPS, and again, there's only so far you can push that tech. Daring to compare it against the world's best OLED on stage at WWDC was pretty silly.

    I mean, claim it's a good IPS panel if you like (it is). But don't claim it can hold up to an OLED, or do cinema level grading. That's just silly. Any DIT or colourist would lose their shit if you gave them an XDR as their reference monitor.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
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  10. flu!d

    flu!d KDE Neon 5.16

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    Even if the individual could see the video or your post Elvis, it would be like convincing a flat Earth believer that the Earth is a sphere - You'd be better off trying to convince the wall that Apple isn't everything wholesome and great in the universe.
     
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  11. Zee

    Zee Member

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    Everyone always forgets the processing...

    "But they're all LG panels!!!"

    Compare Sony processing to LG processing, and then let me know...

    Z...
     
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  12. ae00711

    ae00711 Member

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    You missed an important post aokman

    Professional display expert Vincent Teoh got a hold of the Apple Pro XDR display. When Apple announced the display at WWDC they said it could compete against a Sony broadcast reference monitor. Vincent decided to compare the two side by side.



    A summary of his comments:

    Cons:
    * Extremely expensive for the technology on offer
    * Suffers all the limits of IPS technology
    * Poor contrast ratio of 1000:1 when local dimming failed
    * Bad blooming in small bright areas resulting in muddy visuals
    * "XDR mode" HDR tone mapping inaccuracies and early rolloff making it poor for HDR content creation or accurate grading
    * Poor screen uniformity resulting in "dirty screen effect"
    * Poor colour accuracy at indirect viewing angles
    * Poor black levels - blacks look grey and washed out (even with latest fixes)
    * Dark scenes look bad (even with latest fixes)
    * Poor skin tones and foliage colours, even in SDR
    * Lack of professional display calibration options

    Pros:
    * Out of the box calibration was good for SDR (<3.0 dE2000 - not great, but acceptable)
    * Bright scenes that aren't too bright (i.e.: don't set off the tone mapping issues) look good
    * Good, sharp resolution

    His final comments were: "For it's beautiful design, the pro XDR may find its way into the office of a divorce lawyer". I guess all the talk in this thread about the "Pro" in "Mac Pro" meaning doctors and lawyers was correct. Media professionals, you won't find anything worth your time or money here.

    shameless c'n'p btw
     
  13. chip

    chip Member

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    it all boils down to this little bit of marketing spin, doesn't it? Whatever Apple has just done is actually a hitherto unrealised Platonic ideal form, and anything different is now wrong.
     
  14. underskore

    underskore Member

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    https://www.theage.com.au/technolog...pros-literally-this-time-20200210-p53z8v.html

    After following this thread, reading the above article & finally reading the authors tiny bio at the end of it I was a little disappointed to see it was written by someone who positions themselves as some kind of a tech authority.

    It's interesting to see the stark difference in views between outsiders spruiking the greatness of apple for pros and what we hear in here.

    </thinlyveiledtriggerbait>
     
  15. aokman

    aokman Member

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    Yes because comparing a 4K $50,000 monitor to a $8,500 6K monitor is a fair comparison. I love the double standards in this thread, Apple cant charge 10k + for a computer but sure Sony can charge 50k for a monitor.

    The XDR display will find a market for customers who want to dabble in higher end markets without a production house budget. It will also find a home in the HDR space as Windows is bloody useless at it and the OSX integration of being able to switch proofing modes at the OS or application level is a neat feature.

    As for it’s calibration in HDR, I don’t know of any spectrometer or colorimeter that is rated for 1600nits without clipping the sensor. You would need a neutral filter to cut it down. It is uncharted territory.
     
  16. ae00711

    ae00711 Member

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    Apple marketing made the comparison themselves.... did you miss that tiny fact?
     
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  17. flu!d

    flu!d KDE Neon 5.16

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    Apple seem to believe it is.
     
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  18. OP
    OP
    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    There are several that can read that and much higher.

    Jeti and Klein make several each, and there are others on the market used in industrial spaces.

    Nice attempt to blame the tools and not the display, but you're still wrong. The display has real problems.

    This is more and more the standard on the internet. YouTube channels with many hits, simplified content, and a thumbnail video showing someone overreacting are now taken as fact. The article you linked was but a newspaper "tech commenter" journalist, and clearly not an industry professional.

    Meanwhile real display and colour scientists are ignored, because their words are too complicated, or they don't gush over people's favourite brands.

    It's a pretty sad state of affairs. People not in the industry are getting fed a lot of bullshit, and it shows.

    Thank God for people like Vincent. His company is based in Soho London, I believe, but travels internationally, calibrating displays in the best studios in the world. He's at the highest professional end and bleeding edge of display tech, and doesn't play favourites. His reviews are merit based, and critically analyse even the best displays available, like any good calibrator does. No display is perfect, and they know it, but they also know when a display is just plain shitty.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020
  19. aokman

    aokman Member

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    This display wasn’t even announced when the XDR launched....
     
  20. ae00711

    ae00711 Member

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    so what you're saying is, the XDR naturally loses against the Sony ref monitor that Vincent reviewed because it's the latest and greatest - wasn't even out when XDR announced as you mentioned - but the XDR can beat the previous gen Sony ref monitor, which probably also sold for $50K, or thereabouts, and that would be a more fair comparison.
     

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