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Nikon FF Mirrorless is officially coming!

Discussion in 'Photography & Video' started by SyN, Jul 25, 2018.

  1. SyN

    SyN Member

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    https://www.nikon.com/news/2018/0725_mirrorless_01.htm

    Juicy stuff... seems they will join in on the bells and whistles race with video, EVF etc. Plus it will have an adapter for "NIKKOR F mount lenses that are part of the Nikon digital SLR system"... not sure it will work with AF-D and older as I don't know if they are 'digital SLR' (although some AF-D lenses are made after 2013 and still listed as current)
     
  2. lonewolf1983

    lonewolf1983 Member

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    no actual info, lol
    I'd actually rather they say nothing until its actually meaningful
     
  3. OP
    OP
    SyN

    SyN Member

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    tells the nikon camp to hold onto their stuff and dont jump-ship to Sony just yet
     
  4. NismoR31

    NismoR31 Member

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  5. Michael H

    Michael H Member

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    World's worst kept secret.:lol:
     
  6. methd

    methd Member

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    All over the net about 4 months ago :)
     
  7. Bion1c

    Bion1c Member

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    I'm actually really excited about this product but yeah +1 to "announce it properly or STFU"

    i wouldn't buy v1.0 though, let someone else beta test it. will prob take a generation or two to fix small issues.

    the big question is going to be the adapter though - specifically how fast/precisely AF works
     
  8. lonewolf1983

    lonewolf1983 Member

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    If its good, i'll sell off my Sony stuff immediately.
    As mentioned, the adapter is the key for Nikon - if you cant use your DSLR glass and have it at least a decent performer then it will bust.
     
  9. TheBear21

    TheBear21 Member

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    I can't see how it will be an issue. It's just the bits that were once on the inside, now on the outside.

    I am glad to see it coming. Looks like they are going to beat Canon to the game too. Nikon cameras were already superior to Canon ones in regards to image quality. The big question is how good will the focus be? Nikon's on-sensor focusing up to now has been terrible at best. This is the one area where Canon will have a good start on Nikon because their dual pixel autofocus is already great. I don't trust a first generation product to be as good as I would like. I am waiting on delivery on some A7iii's. This camera would have to be a beast for me to cancel that order at this stage.
     
  10. lonewolf1983

    lonewolf1983 Member

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    Cant just put a mirror box in an adapter sadly - although there was a Nikon patent for an SLT style (e.g. Sony A-mount body) one floating around.
    In theory that could work, but has its downsides, prefer good on-sensor AF.

    Their J1 series (the teeny tiny sensor mirrorless) AF was actually pretty good.
     
  11. OP
    OP
    SyN

    SyN Member

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    Seems Nikon-1 autofocus was top-notch? So the FX shouldn't be any worse..
    Now I doubt the adapter will work with my AF-D lenses as I don't think they'll bother putting a focusing motor inside the adapter..
     
  12. Bion1c

    Bion1c Member

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    it's definitely not that simple..

    Current DSLR splits light between AF module in body and pentaprism. as everyone is well aware, manufacturing tolerances means we have to deal with AF fine tune. I've tuned enough lenses with lensalign in controlled conditions to see how much variation there is and its quite shocking. AF consistency is probably my #1 reason to consider mirrorless.

    Currently in nikon live view they're just using CDAF right? So if they're moving to on sensor hybrid PDAF/CDAF it's not even worth discussing current live view performance to the new model.

    What i'm interested in is the design and performance of the adapter. Given the mechanical linkages and variation across nikon lens types we already know it'll be a complex adapter. Plus, the leaked patent on nikon rumours had a diagram with a mirror(!) inside it and a similar PDAF module as what you find in body now. The tolerances issues would be worse as you have 2 mounts to deal with (lens -> adapter -> body) instead of 1. It would also mean the adapter will be crazy expensive.

    Or maybe that's not right and they're using on sensor PDAF? How does that affect lens performance?

    Lots of questions still. I'm looking forward to seeing what's actually released and how it performs
     
  13. lonewolf1983

    lonewolf1983 Member

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    Yeah a mirror box, AF system and you'd need an optical viewfinder so a traditional mirror adapter is out.
    SLT one they have a patent out for - Sony's LA-EA4 is the same
    Or just a straight passthrough - like Sony's LA-EA3

    AF-D lenses may work if they do what sony did with the LA-EA4, or they may just ditch it.
    They may also decide that only the latest lenses (E-apertures) will work - but as i said before that will put people off who own slightly older glass.

    Unless its fully on-sensor PDAF, fine tuning will always be an issue.
     
  14. Athiril

    Athiril Member

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    Im Sony, but lets hope they learn to make their mount the same, just shorter, so all they need is an extension tube with pass through contacts for adapting.
     
  15. Xang

    Xang Member

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    It would still need to move the aperture lever present on non-E Nikon lenses. I believe there's no way they'd make the adapter E-lens compatible only, they're so new, there's so few of them and they're all expensive. It needs to work with G lenses to appeal to the mainstream - if people have to buy a set of lenses with a new mount, they'll still be able to consider swapping entirely to Sony.

    TBH I find it hard to imagine their first attempt can beat the A7III, but extra competition is healthy for the market. Keen to see what they can do.

    Plus anything to push Canon further down in the dirt :p
     
  16. TheBear21

    TheBear21 Member

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    What does any of that got to do with how a lens connects to a camera and communicates with it? That's all the adapter is. Motors, electronics and the code so they can all talk to each other.
     
  17. OP
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    SyN

    SyN Member

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    And costly that LA-EA4 is, $4-500.. which kinda means trying to save money by using AF-D lenses is moot :(


    I think Nikon have poor vision as a company, but their engineering is top notch. Hence why I believe their first attempt might not be bad at all, even though sometimes their products are sometimes incorrectly positioned. They have the ergo down pat already, access to top image sensors, off-sensor and on-sensor (Nikon1) focusing. They are however, dependant on others for the EVF...
     
  18. Bion1c

    Bion1c Member

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    if it's so simple why isnt there any adapters for nikon lenses that support AF for other systems?

    hint: it isnt simple.

    it would be a lot easier if they only had to support fully electronic E lenses but obviously they aren't going to draw the line there; it will be G at least.
     
  19. lonewolf1983

    lonewolf1983 Member

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    Not sure what you mean, you mentioned putting the DSLR AF system into an adapter - this would be too big and you'd have no way to see the image.
    Offers no advantage over a DSLR.

    EVF's arent hard to source from many manufacturers.
    Not sure on the vision comment, Nikon users are generally pretty happy with their gear as they know what they're gonna get, probably a bit slow on the mirrorless bandwagon but not being the first to market does have its benefits
     
  20. OP
    OP
    SyN

    SyN Member

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    In terms of the vision part, they've messed up quite a few things:
    -nikon 1 and keymission series were flops
    -nikon DL line got canned, or any premium compact for the matter
    -nikon DX serious users lack lens options and feel abandoned
    -marketing campaigns and after sales support


    But apart from that, as I said before their engineering is spot on with top notch DSLRs and lenses. So if new mirrorless is a serious FX body and have good lenses/adapter then I reckon itll be good. Just a mirrorless version of D850 will be a winner for many
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018

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