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Nikon FF Mirrorless is officially coming!

Discussion in 'Photography & Video' started by SyN, Jul 25, 2018.

  1. OP
    OP
    SyN

    SyN Member

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    I dont understand, arent most cameras capped at 1/8000s or flash sync at 1/250s?
     
  2. stevo4

    stevo4 Member

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    All of which can be done on the D850.

    Same as the D850.
     
  3. Deftone2k

    Deftone2k In the Darkroom

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    A9 will do 1/32000 on the silent electronic shutter (1/8000 on the mechanical) and if you are doing hyper sync with strobes that can do the faster shutter then sky is the limit really if thats your thing.

    Only in Live View mode right? Not full time?
     
  4. Xang

    Xang Member

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    If you think that the Live View focusing on a D850 is as usable as the OVF focusing I have nothing further to debate.

    And yes, as mentioned A9 can do 1/32000th which is great for shooting wide open in bright light. The D850 maxes out 2 stops slower at 1/8000th.
     
  5. ipv6ready

    ipv6ready Member

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    Nikon knows that no self respecting pro was buying this mirrorless for work, not until there are at least ten speciality lenses.

    As for dual slot, bahbahahahha for 99.99 buyers of this camera, many won’t have two cards
     
  6. OP
    OP
    SyN

    SyN Member

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    Agree!

    Dare i say all photographers, at any level, don't utilise all 100% of their camera's functionality.
    Prosumers particularly, just want all the bells and whistle and will always have extra desires. If the next iteration has dual slots, theyll find something else to complain about. Most people have other more significant risk aversion precautions they should worry about before fearing the single XQD.
    Heres some commentary from bythom people out there should read: https://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/the-card-failure-issue.html

    The self respecting pro will just stick to whatever tool that brings home the bread. No matter how good a camera is they wont switch until it has a long proven track record.
     
  7. stevo4

    stevo4 Member

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    I'II will stick to leaving that there.

    and the OVF showing me what comes through the lens.
     
  8. lonewolf1983

    lonewolf1983 Member

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    Well i'm pretty much the target market for Nikon here...

    I shoot Pro Nikon bodies for sport/wildlife and have been very happy with them (along with a good spread of quality lenses)
    I also shoot landscapes/travel and portraits/general photos with Sony mirrorless (and have 2-3x A-mount and 3x FE mount lenses)

    Now, I have been waiting for either company to come up with a solution that allows me to ditch the other.
    Sony bombed out as I really dont like the A7 series ergonomics, and the 3rd party long glass isnt there.

    Nikon have come closer... Single slot is a bit of a pain but for my paid work (sports) it would be used for non-critical images (such as quarter time huddles, low angles etc), and if i shot a wedding i'd be happy to do some detail shots with it and swap around cards.
    I have found XQD more reliable than SD myself, especially in physical form factor.

    I am waiting on reviews with production cameras and 3rd party glass (especially long) to see how it looks, really the adapter needs to work well.
    If it does what I need, i'll sell all my Sony gear

    My A7rii only has a single slot, crap battery life, slow FPS/buffer and eye-AF is often hit and miss.
    I gain ergonomics, battery/card compatibility and ability to use my F-mount glass.

    Down the track i'd sell my pro bodies for a D5 mirrorless version in a heartbeat
     
    SyN likes this.
  9. Deftone2k

    Deftone2k In the Darkroom

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    Ok.. thats fine but still lets compare apples to apples eh.
     
  10. OP
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    SyN

    SyN Member

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    If redundancy is so large of a concern, for your critical work I would assume you have 2 bodies, 2 copy of lenses, 2 flashes, 2 sets of batteries, 2 of everything else too in case something breaks. In which case, its not likely itll be the XQD failing.

    To replace the Sony, just upgrading to pro Nikon XQD camera, even if single slot, would already be a big overall reliability upgrade

    Personally, for my gigs (admittedly not as time critical as weddings or sports) I am more scared of smashing my lens while tripod mounted than losing data on my SD cards. External factors like weather and transport are probably more significant than the gear I bring anyway :confused:
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
  11. Deftone2k

    Deftone2k In the Darkroom

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    If you are being paid by clients though you are putting the risk unnecessarily onto them. I see the discussion of 'How about the film days' or 'I have never had a card fail'.. well it only has to happen once to have a big impact on you and your business. I have had 4 cards fail over the years (Different types + Different brands) and each time the second slot had my back. I may never have another card failure in the rest of my career.. but at least I know I have done my best to play it safe.

    If you are shooting things that happen once, then if something goes bang on that sequence then it is lost forever.

    And yes most photographers have backups of most things. I carry 3 bodies, overlaps in glass, batteries, flashes.. everything. It's all insured though, accidents happen.. I have dropped cameras/lenses/flashes everything at weddings. Sometimes they break, sometimes you get lucky. You just get out the backup or switch your gear and carry on. The repair/replacement comes later as a cost of business. Still, short of dropping your camera in the ocean or in a place you cannot access it again (which I dont know why that would ever happen) the failure point always comes down to a hardware level (if you remove humans) and so having the best redundancy possible is just good business no?

    I'd like to add.. in all of the photography groups I am in around the world, there doesnt go a week where I dont see a post (or more than 1) about a card that was corrupted, formatted and shot over, no second card backup etc.. so it happens a LOT. Sometimes its human error, but the majority of these human errors would have been avoided if they had simply shot two cards and had good process.
     
    Aratahu likes this.
  12. OP
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    SyN

    SyN Member

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    Deftone2k I dont disagree at all, but its also down to a matter of cost.
    I'm not a professional photographer and I don't get paid a few thousand bucks for one shoot to be able to warrant backups of everything plus an assistant. Anyone who operates at that level should indeed have D500/D850/D5 level cameras that are complete bricks and proven to be reliable, plus have extensive experience to reduce human errors.

    For anyone else, single card is not likely to be the weakest link in the whole scheme of things. Especially if it is a freshly formatted, relatively new, carefully used XQD card.
    The Z6 and Z7 were never meant to be replacements for the D850/D5. I reckon if they had put a single SD slot in there people would be happy with it as a consumer camera. But now somehow people expect it to be pro and therefore have dual slots...even though XQD is already a big uprade in speed and robustness. It's not that bad of a case if you compare it to Sony:

    A7iii has only single SD card slot - inferior to Z6
    A7Riii has one UHS-II and one UHS-I SD card slot - much slower format than Z7 but has better redundancy
     
  13. Xang

    Xang Member

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    For people that don't care about the potential loss of one particular image, the single card slot is of no concern. That is fine. Many people fit into that category. For people that are paid to photograph something, it's a very big concern indeed. There's no reason to take a step backwards when dual card slots have already existed in every professional camera for the last 5 years, even those costing $2000 or less (let alone those costing $5500 ala the Z7).

    The amount of Nikon quotes where they compare it to the D850 begs the comparison. I'm sure they would have wished it could have met it spec for spec if they were technically capable of it.

    https://nikonrumors.com/2018/08/28/ir-interview-with-nikon-engineers.aspx/

    It has two.

    I only use slow (95mb/s) SD cards in my A9, but the amazing buffer makes the card write speed irrelevant for shooting stills.
     
  14. lonewolf1983

    lonewolf1983 Member

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    The a7iii has 2 SD card slots.

    My personal situation, I have 2x D4's and a D850 (D500 about to be sold) so i'm not new to dual slots or XQD.
    I shoot sports in which getting the decisive moment is about as much about luck as it is planning and gear - dual is nice to have as long as the 2nd slot can keep up.

    Sony does have dual slots, but the 2nd one is slower (e.g. much slower being USHi), so it could become a redundant option.
    They also dont have the glass/pricing for me, so i'd never even get the shot in the first place :lol:

    No doubt that this is the consumer level mirrorless entry, and i expect it will sell pretty well (pending proper reviews)
    Glass > bodies and Nikon has very good glass at all levels.
     
  15. OP
    OP
    SyN

    SyN Member

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    I stand corrected, A3iii is dual slot, but still slower and physically weaker than XQD. And also there are cameras that cost more yet still have single SD slot... RX1, Leica etc so dual slot should not the be all and end all

    You can bet that when the pro version of a Z mirrorless comes it will have all the teething problems and any reliability issues addressed if any, PLUS the dual slots. Only then can the real pros confidently switch and let the snobby prosumers complain about price or some other nuance.


    According to this, a translation of the interview with Nikon Imaging Business Development Department Director, there will be a pro line:
    https://nikonrumors.com/2018/08/26/...l-like-the-d5-in-the-z-line-count-on-it.aspx/
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
  16. lonewolf1983

    lonewolf1983 Member

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    Yep, and the 2nd slot is only crappy UHS-i

    No doubt there will be pro models coming from Nikon in future
    I suspect that Nikon omitted the dual slots for a few reasons

    a) cost
    b) made for prosumers, not pros
    c) means they can charge a premium/add feature in later models
    d) processing power limited (e.g. cant handle the throughput)
    e) size - they wanted to compete with the smaller Sony's, but maintain the EN-EL15 battery
     
  17. Psyentist

    Psyentist Member

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    Well if a $5K+ camera isn't being pitched to pros, all I can say is good luck to Nikon.
     
    TheBear21 likes this.
  18. lonewolf1983

    lonewolf1983 Member

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    Sony sold plenty, Nikon is pretty much doing what Sony did but a generation behind
     
  19. OP
    OP
    SyN

    SyN Member

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    Its not meant to be a main income stream for Nikon anyway, its more for testing the waters
    Not expecting it to outsell the number of entry level DSLRs or the value of Pro gear or cannibalise them
     
  20. lonewolf1983

    lonewolf1983 Member

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    yep its a prosumer level camera to get people used to mirrorless, and stop a switch to sony
    Its really directed to current nikon owners, adapting your existing glass is the main thing they're working for
     

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