No More SBS

Discussion in 'Business & Enterprise Computing' started by Cronox, Jul 6, 2012.

  1. NSanity

    NSanity Member

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    Ask Autodesk officially.

    Sure they are certifying some of their products on Citrix - but they sure as shit don't expect you to draft on them. Ever. Things may change going forward - but as long as Autodesk is writing the software, don't hold your breathe.


    Hey! it rings true for most of Metro-CBD's.

    Looked into this with Vertel. They are going to get back to me when they can get the initial install cost under $130k. Even then, monthly figures are at LEAST $1500/month.

    Well no. I don't think you're going to get Riverbeds on the cheap - ever. Riverbed's potential customers grow smaller and smaller every year with increase bandwidth and reduced latency and then the advent of the cloud renders most of it unnecessary.

    I think you're going to find that things like on-premise SBS Essentials - or whatever they are going to call it now - that blend with hosted solutions in terms of management. Maybe MS will do server-side local caching - but i really don't see it - Its a temporary problem thats likely to be resolved in < 10 years, possibly 5. No company is going to invest in the software development, marketing and support to make that happen for such a tightass market.

    By the time i implement something with hotswap drives and a decent warranty - i'm about 3x that price. The $40/month option seems better imo - You end up with a Office ProPlus subscription as well - if your customer doesn't need Access/Publisher, its not super great (over say $250 Home and Business) - but if they do, it starts to look appealing. Particularly for Terminal Server users ($1000+/copy).

    A NAS for that is roughly $600. And you're right - for all the problems of Windows, most SMB based NAS's have more.

    1 word - Leasing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2012
  2. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Cloud-based workstation use is on it's way. It's not a matter of if, but when.

    RedHat are working hard on their SPICE protocol, which they've proved can stream four 1080p24 H.264 movies simultaneously to a single workstation instance over 100mbit/s LAN with hardware accelerated rendering on the client side, and that's just alpha code. Work is being done too on 3D apps to achieve the same, which will let you take advantage of fast server-side CPU but still display viewports on your workstation in hardware accelerated 3D.

    The Xen kids are doing similar things in their world too. I have no doubt Microsoft and VMWare aren't far behind either.

    Yes, bandwidth will always be a consideration. But clever people are doing clever things at the moment without the need for ludicrous connection speeds to make things work fairly well. Yeah, it sucks that Australia is the third world of the Internet, but things are moving forwards at least.

    Rural areas are always hard done by in this country when it comes to technology, but the idea of a metropolitan small business being able to roll out a few high power systems for a handful of users in just a matter of minutes, and not have to pay a massive up-front fee for software or hardware is pretty exciting.
     
  3. Skitza

    Skitza Member

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    Err I was more going along the lines of if all your infrastructure was on the cloud. But as others have said, I looked at a CBR the other day doing between 50-60% bandwidth savings! Down the track it's certainly possible, give it time :) NBN :p

    Nsanity - I've used Revit 2012/13 on cloud over Xenapp 6.5, its honestly amazing! iPad or Desktop is perfectly usable on Cloud.
     
  4. KriiV

    KriiV Member

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    In the "Business & Enterprise Computing" section? :p
     
  5. mtma

    mtma Member

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    I think we'll find that the fee for software will largely remain the same. The people drawing up the pricing structures aren't inane, they know what businesses are willing to put up per seat of their software and that's not going to change because you need less hardware.

    Well aside from the initial icebreaker to move you into the new software model.
     
  6. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Of course it will. But the up front fee will be far less.

    One of the biggest hurdles to launching a new business venture is the up front capital required for things like fitting out an office full of computers and software.

    Leased lightweight hardware and cloud-based apps take that massive up-front cost, and spread it over the course of the year, making it far easier for startups to manage cash flow. That means either spending what money you do have more sensibly early on (on important things like staff, for example), or not having to go grovelling to the bank/investors for more startup capital.

    Having run a small business myself, as well as having set up countless numbers of them for other people, I know just how precious those early-day dollars are.

    On a somewhat related note, I know a lot of creative students who are getting very excited about this:

    http://www.adobe.com/au/products/creativecloud.html

    The cost is much the same as standard Adobe products, but through this model that cost is spread over the course of the year. That means students can pick up industry tools and pay them off over time while they learn them. That' great news not only for students, but for the industries hiring them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2012
  7. aza2001

    aza2001 Member

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    I personally think this is kind of a joke.

    Most small business users want to keep data locally, without "risking" data exposure on cloud based services. They want to own there own data, and have secure email which they can control. This is where SBS provided I guess a "secure" mindset to most SMB's

    Yes more things are going cloud, but also people want to own there things.

    Just like all this media going cloud EG:

    - Music - all these music services charging $100 per year for a streaming service and after that year is up what do you have?? what do you own?? NOTHING

    All in all this "Cloud" thing is ripping people off I think.
     
  8. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I think you're covering a lot of technologies with a single blanket.

    I know a huge volume of small businesses using Google Apps/Mail and Google Drive for simple email, calendar and document sharing needs. These replace the hassle of maintaining local Exchange and FTP setups quite easily. The cost is a simple monthly invoice, and it means they can happily sack their IT service providers (who, in the small business market, are generally horrendous).

    For their actual workflow, they still use Microsoft Office on a PC (ignoring the "Apps" part of "Google Apps" entirely).

    For all the talk of risking data via cloud-based services, I've seen far more businesses be affected by corporate executives losing their mobile phones that contain a complete cache of all of their company emails with no encryption or passwords on the devices than I have seen companies lose sensitive information after having put it on Google Drive or Drop Box.
     
  9. dr_deathy

    dr_deathy Member

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    From what i have seen most SBS's around here are very poorly setup and really crappy hardware, entry level dell and HP servers are the same as there normal consumer level gear with some reporting and some cooling management.

    most people who don't like it are just worried about their shitty jobs, i cant wait til the death of a local exchange server the most. File servers tho IMO will still be needed out here for another 5-10years til NBN, but hell even we have reliable ADSL2+ across most of the town and great service in the CBD, also a lot of people are helstra business customers so if it does go down they provide a free nextg while its down, so i really cant see the doom and gloom over it all.
     
  10. Smokin Whale

    Smokin Whale Member

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    I'm pretty confident in cloud based solutions, provided there are local copies incase connectivity fails. Are people really that scared of having their data hacked? Surely good password management should take care of this. I'm more terrorfied of having my business broken into and having my servers taken.
     
  11. NSanity

    NSanity Member

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    Hacking happens far more often on a per user basis than theft.
     
  12. Asteroid

    Asteroid Member

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    D= Now who will broadcast the soccer and dodgy foreign movies?
     
  13. cbb1935

    cbb1935 Guest

    I suspect this may send quite a few IT businesses under to be honest. In particular those that have based themselves around Microsoft Server solutions for small businesses.

    Okay sure you do get Exchange in SBS 2012 Essentials, but it requires another Server to install onto. BOOM there's another $2-5k right there.

    Then you require individual Exchange CALS - BOOM up goes the price again.

    ...

    Well done Microsoft, you've just driven MORE SMB customers to consider Linux in one of it's many variants.

    This is another area it'll hurt businesses.

    Those that package up a server and OS solution, sell to a financier, who the business then pay off per month. The business gets the money up front for everything.

    But with Small Business being the main target for such sales, it'll hurt there too, and make such solutions less scalable.

    Some of our customers also have certain stipulations by relevant bodies stating they cannot host data offsite, it has to be stored in house. Financial services spring to mind.

    Others like you mention have large files that simply won't work well over the cloud.

    Couple that with consumer grade internet access, and SBS style solutions are their best bet. In particular if they need SQL Express or Exchange on a budget.

    Actually it's even better. Not limited to students, but also people who don't require Indesign (in my case) for a lengthy period.

    I need InDesign for our Wedding Guestbook, so $40 AUD a month is a brilliant way to sell your software. 80% saving for students and educators on that.

    Adobe need to be congratulated on tackling piracy of their products in the most sensible way possible. MAKING IT AFFORDABLE.
     
  14. alch

    alch Member

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    I saw it on the main OCAU page in the side box .. doesnt say what forum, just the title :p
     
  15. schplade

    schplade Member

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    Personally I don't get why a small business would want to host email on a standard ADSL connection anyway, what happens when it inevitably goes down and you stop being able to receive emails? With a "cloud" based system at least the emails will get delivered and just not pulled down to the server until the connection is back up.

    Or when your ~$2k 4 year old server running exchange goes down and again you simply stop being able to have email delivered...

    Or when your ISP changes your static IP without warning and your email is down for two days while DNS changes replicate.

    Those complaining about bandwidth, you have to download/upload the emails either way as long as you use a caching based system there is no difference.
     
  16. koopz

    koopz Member

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    I still see this as norm.. ?

    I'm paid for just my time... I don't sell anything other than that
     
  17. cbb1935

    cbb1935 Guest

    More control. For legal reasons. For confidential purposes. For users with multi gigabyte mailboxes.

    That's why you NEVER rely on a single MX record. Secondary MX record and your mail is safely diverted to a secondary mail server until your mail server is back up.

    I have NEVER had this happen on any reputable ISP offering business DSL.

    Well there is, and it's a huge one.

    If you host Exchange locally and your internet goes down, you can still use email internally. If you are on cloud email you're buggered.

    If someone deletes an email and it's purged online via a cloud setup with limited storage, it's gone. If someone does that on locally hosted Exchange it's easily recoverable.

    If you need a paper trail (legally) for an email, it's MUCH easier to generate on Exchange locally.

    If you require emails to be digitally signed (again for legal purposes) then it's much easier to do locally (as you have control over the email from start to finish).

    Try accessing a multi gigabyte mailbox over the cloud, then re-caching that onto a new machine. The user is out of action for hours.

    .....

    There are huge benefits to hosting Exchage in house, regardless of the business size. You'll have to excuse me for this comment and it's not directed at you, but rather a comment in general.

    Most people (in my experience) go hosted Exchange because:

    a) they don't have the staff numbers large enough to warrant an in house Exchange (or Linux) mail server.

    b) their current IT guys haven't the faintest idea how to setup, configure, or manage MS Exchange, so take the easy way out.

    That said I love Exchange :)
     
  18. glasswindow

    glasswindow Member

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    All of the above issues can be solved by using a mail spooling service that also alows you to access spooled mail via a web portal.

    Yeah well what happens when people don't have a dedicated workstation? each time they shuffle desks the ENTIRE mailbox gets downloaded again. One of Office 365 primary selling points is the ability to have upto a 25 gig mailbox. So when you get 10 stockbrokers do a computer shuffle (3 times last month) with 20 gig mailbox's bandwidth gets chewed up FAST.

    (don't even get me started on the stability problems with 20 gig OST's)
     
  19. ewok85

    ewok85 Member

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    I just find the idea of hosted email for anything under 100 people to be questionable, and without very specific needs, cloud options just look the best choice.
     
  20. fester2001

    fester2001 Member

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    Depends what you want, if Google apps is fine for your needs then yes, if you really need the features/speed of exchange then 100 users on a cloud based solution like office 365 is rather expensive.
     

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