NVIDIA GeForce RTX 30 Series | RTX 3090 3080 3070 | Discussion

Discussion in 'Video Cards & Monitors' started by Sphinx, Sep 1, 2020.

  1. micsway123

    micsway123 Member

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  2. huskybusky

    huskybusky Member

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    Something about the maths in this post doesn't make sense...

    Also if you are 'swapping" , why would you compare water-cooled with air. Wouldn't you assume you would use watercoolling (if the 3080 is water-cooled ) with the 3080ti also therefore maintaining the 12% increase. Same with air.
     
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  3. groovetek

    groovetek Member

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    The only thing being debated is whether the 15-17% additional cost of an equivalent 3080 Ti variant over a 3080 is worth it.

    Answer? Yes, it's worth it. You might not get a full 15% extra performance, but you get some extra performance, extra 2GB, and arguably slightly more OC headroom, as most model 3080 Ti's have artificially lower stock clocks than both 3080 and 3090 for the sake of product placement.

    Comparing an overclocked, water-cooled 3080 with a lowest-tier 3080 Ti is an interesting comparison, yes, but arguably irrelevant... unless we are comparing the price of getting a 3080, saving the 15%, and spending that on watercooling it, versus just buying an air-cooled 3080 Ti, and sticking with air-cooling forever on it.

    But that's an unusual proposition ha.
     
  4. cbwolf

    cbwolf Member

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    You can try to 'call my BS claim' all you like :lol:.

    The #1 rated 3080 on Timespy is by Teclab running it under LN2 clocked at 2.415Ghz. It has a graphics score of 21,560 (https://www.3dmark.com/spy/14041262).

    My Timespy run the 3080Ti with a simple 30 second +100/+800 in afterburner has a graphics score of 21,685 (https://www.3dmark.com/spy/23551350).

    If we're really just focused on GPU power, Port Royal is a better benchmark as it has no CPU component and was created solely for that purpose. The #1 3080 is 14,131 versus the #1 3080Ti at 18,927.

    Not even sure why this is a discussion to be honest. It's like debating if a 3060 is faster than a 3090. Of course it isn't. The 3080 and 3080Ti are different classes of cards, at different price points. They don't compete with each other and of course the Ti is faster than the 3080. The entire argument is a silly nonsense.
     
  5. nCrypt

    nCrypt Member

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    i paid 1400 for my 3080. sold it for 2300, bought a 3090 for 2900. total spent $2k outta pocket for a 3090. need that extra miniscule percantile!

    except that would be true,, except i didnt sell my FHR 3080, and kept it, and sold the 2080 Ti in stead....

    ill sell the 3080 when the 3090 Ti comes out :D
     
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  6. .Radiant

    .Radiant Member

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    I'm still umm'ing and ahh'ing over if I should do the swap lol

    prob could sell the 3080 for 2300-2500 and pick up a low end 3080ti for the same price but gotta dick around with waterblocks and all that again. At the same time I have moved up to playing at 4k since I got the card and the extra perf would be nice.
     
  7. The Beast

    The Beast Member

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    That's the entire premise for the question (see .Radiant post above). It's not MY comparison, I was just adding actual performance data to the equation to make the conversation a little more fact-based and a little less hyperbolic.

    I'm not a 3080 apologist, I have a 3090 so my e-peen is already at maximum extension.

    Again, made in reference to the conversation already occurring in this thread. (see .Radiant post above). The cost of a new block should be factored in to the changeover - and as Trizae was saying it's a no brainer unless you're already water-cooling a decent 3080, in which case the "cheap" upgrade isn't necessarily netting you that much.

    I'm not trying to be a dick... but.

    Your claim:
    Reality:
    So, 5% performance increase is "Whoopy", but 0.579777% is "substationally higher"?

    I'm all for having the conversation about value and performance, but let's keep the hyperbole to a minimum k?

    Completely disagree.
    Of course the 3080 and 3080Ti are competitors. The performance margins between them are so close it's ludicrous not to compare them. Pretend for a second the 3080 was an AMD card, it has 90% of the performance of a 3080 Ti for 60% of the MSRP. Is that not competitive??

    Heck, the 6800XT is a brilliant overclocker that in pure rasterization can compete with 3080Ti* - are they not competitors because you've arbitrarily decided they are in different classes?
    * my 5 minute OC TimeSpy graphics score is 21428, only 1.2% behind your 3080 Ti score with a 5800X vs your 5950X

    With respect to the 3080 vs 3080Ti
    The average TimeSpy graphics scores are 17684 and 19565 (10.6%). The average TimeSpy Extreme graphics scores are 8919 and 10059 (12.8%). The average Port Royal is 11571 and 13312 (15.4%). The 22 game average FPS difference is 5.5% (1080), 7.1% (1440p) and 10.9% (4k).

    The average of those averages (synthetic and game) yields a real world performance difference between a 3080 and 3080Ti of 10.4%. It's not nothing, but it's not night and day either.

    Again, back to the original point - if you're like .Radiant and you already have a water-cooled 3080, you're probably only looking at 5% switching to an air-cooled 3080 Ti, or having to outlay quite a bit more for that changeover to keep water and still only netting 10%. It's not the "no brainer" people claim it is imho.

    I did this too! Except I didn't sell my 3080 either :tongue:.
     
  8. cbwolf

    cbwolf Member

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    Cool story - except you've completely veered off of an tangent building silly strawman arguments.

    1. Trizae claimed his (and other 'decent') water-cooled 3080s outperform air-cooled 3080Tis. They do not. I pointed out that they do not, and used the fact that my air-cooled 3080Ti outperforms an LN2 cooled 3080 as an example to illustrate the point. Nothing you have contributed shows otherwise.
    2. The value of a 3080Ti vs a 3080 was raised, and pretty much everyone agreed (because it's obvious) that the 3080Ti is not great value relative to a regular 3080.
    3. You may view the 3080 and 3080Ti as competitors - I do not. Using your logic, the 3080 and 3090 are also competitors - which I find laughable. They cater for different market segments, at different prices with relative value taking a dive off of a cliff.

    But you do you if it makes you happy :thumbup:
     
  9. The Beast

    The Beast Member

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    Genuinely confused how you think this is a straw man, I haven’t discussed a single concept that wasn’t already being discussed before I weighed in.

    As did I.

    That’s not the point, it’s the discussion over whether flipping a FHR 3080 for a low tier LHR 3080 Ti is a no brainer.

    Regarding the 3090, I’ve gone on record describing it as the stupidest product NVidia have made in a long time, primarily because the 3080 existed at literally half the price with most of the same performance. The 3080 Ti isn’t much better, but the world has changed a lot in 12 months so individual purchasing rationale is all over the place.
     
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  10. nCrypt

    nCrypt Member

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    for me even though i dont mine, its all in my head, i have zero interest in buying anything LHR, because it feels gimped.

    feels like buying a Ferrari with cheap Chinese tyres on it, cant get full performance out of the product. even though i literally play two games. (games that would run on a GTX 750 Ti lol...

    Even though i know LHR has been implemented to assist gamers, as a gamer, still don't want. hence i went with a 3090 over a 3080 Ti, even though i have always had Ti's, rather not have a LHR card.

    and so far, resale value, for me makes sense :)
     
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  11. ndt

    ndt Member

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  12. micsway123

    micsway123 Member

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  13. jjjc_93

    jjjc_93 Member

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    It's funny because their biggest bullet to continue with inflating prices and market scarcity would have been to turn a blind eye to mining like AMD have done and continue manufacturing FHR cards. ETH going POS has been pushed back again so there is unlikely to be an ungodly selling off of cards anytime soon.

    I doubt they would be halting production, doesn't sound cost effective, however I could believe they are stockpiling stock to move sales downline to the next quarter if targets have already been met for q4. Investors live for that quarter to quarter and year to year growth. Everything has to get better, even if you're already booming.
     
  14. groovetek

    groovetek Member

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    RDNA2 just doesn't lend itself that well to mining, so I don't think AMD had to deliberately turn a blind eye or anything like that.

    Latest steam hardware survey, most prevalent RDNA2 GPU is the RX 6700XT with 0.16% market, RTX 3090 is at 0.42%. Every other RDNA2 GPU doesn't even show up in the list because the market share is too low...

    Amazing.

    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 10608.39%-1.75%
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti5.98%+0.03%
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 16505.80%+0.61%
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 20605.40%-1.25%
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 10503.33%+0.08%
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 Ti2.92%+0.18%
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 10702.56%+0.08%
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 SUPER2.45%-0.24%
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 16602.06%-0.54%
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER2.04%-0.06%
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 30701.64%+0.09%
    AMD Radeon RX 5801.60%+0.12%
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 20701.59%-0.48%
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 10801.56%-0.03%
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650 Ti1.44%+0.17%
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Laptop GPU1.30%+0.36%
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 SUPER1.29%-0.08%
    AMD Radeon RX 5701.23%+0.06%
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 9601.18%-0.12%
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 9701.17%+0.06%
    AMD Radeon Vega 8 Graphics1.14%+0.07%
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 750 Ti1.03%-0.01%
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 30601.03%-0.03%
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650 SUPER0.99%+0.10%
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti0.97%+0.10%
    AMD Radeon Graphics0.97%+0.97%
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 30800.96%+0.15%
    Intel(R) UHD Graphics0.93%+0.14%
    Intel UHD Graphics 6200.84%+0.05%
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER0.80%-0.10%
    AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT0.78%+0.08%
    AMD Radeon HD 8800 Series0.77%+0.07%
    NVIDIA GeForce GT 10300.76%+0.05%
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 Ti0.75%-0.06%
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 20800.70%-0.07%
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Ti0.66%+0.13%
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti0.61%+0.05%
    Intel HD Graphics 40000.54%0.00%
    Intel HD Graphics 6200.54%+0.03%
    NVIDIA GeForce GT 7300.52%+0.03%
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M0.52%+0.03%
    Intel UHD Graphics 6300.51%+0.02%
    NVIDIA GeForce 940M0.48%+0.01%
    AMD Radeon RX 5500.46%+0.02%
    Intel(R) Iris(R) Xe Graphics0.45%+0.13%
    AMD Radeon Vega 3 Graphics0.44%+0.09%
    AMD Radeon RX Vega 11 Graphics0.43%+0.04%
    Intel HD Graphics 5200.42%+0.01%
    NVIDIA GeForce GT 7100.41%+0.03%
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 30900.41%+0.05%
    Intel Haswell0.41%0.00%
    NVIDIA GeForce MX2500.41%+0.02%
    NVIDIA GeForce MX1500.40%+0.01%
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 9500.38%-0.03%
    Intel HD Graphics 46000.36%+0.02%
    AMD Radeon RX 4800.35%+0.01%
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU0.35%+0.07%
    Intel Ivy Bridge0.33%+0.02%
    Intel HD Graphics 30000.33%+0.01%
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 950M0.33%+0.01%
    AMD Radeon RX 5600.32%+0.02%
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 7500.30%0.00%
    Intel HD Graphics 55000.29%0.00%
    AMD Radeon RX 5500 XT0.29%+0.02%
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Max-Q Design0.28%+0.02%
    AMD Radeon RX 5600 XT0.27%+0.02%
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti0.27%+0.04%
    NVIDIA GeForce GT 720M0.27%0.00%
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3050 Laptop GPU0.27%+0.12%
    AMD Radeon R7 Graphics0.27%+0.01%
    AMD Radeon R5 Graphics0.26%+0.01%
    AMD Radeon RX 590 Series0.26%+0.01%
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 6500.25%0.00%
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti0.25%+0.10%
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 7600.25%+0.01%
    Intel HD Graphics 60000.25%-0.02%
    NVIDIA GeForce MX1100.24%0.00%
    AMD Radeon RX 4700.24%+0.01%
    Intel Iris Plus Graphics 6400.24%-0.01%
    NVIDIA GeForce MX3500.24%+0.03%
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 6600.24%+0.01%
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 9800.24%+0.02%
    Intel HD Graphics 6300.24%+0.01%
    NVIDIA GeForce MX1300.23%+0.01%
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 Ti0.22%+0.02%
    Intel(R) Iris(R) Plus Graphics0.22%+0.01%
    AMD Radeon RX 4600.20%+0.01%
    Intel(R) UHD Graphics 6300.20%+0.02%
    AMD Radeon RX 580 2048SP0.19%0.00%
    Intel HD Graphics 5300.19%+0.01%
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 30500.19%+0.19%
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3050 Ti Laptop GPU0.19%+0.19%

    Intel Sandy Bridge0.18%0.00%
    NVIDIA GeForce 920M0.18%+0.01%
    NVIDIA GeForce MX4500.17%+0.17%
    AMD Radeon RX 57000.17%+0.02%
    0.17%-0.02%
    AMD Radeon RX Vega0.16%+0.01%
    NVIDIA GeForce GT 6300.16%0.00%
    AMD Radeon RX 6700 XT0.16%+0.16%
    NVIDIA GeForce MX3300.16%+0.16%
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3050 Ti0.16%+0.16%
    Intel Valleyview Baytrail0.15%0.00%
    Other10.88%-0.40%
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
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  15. ndt

    ndt Member

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    I was actually wondering if it might be that they're stock piling components for whatever 2022 models they're planning to release.
     
  16. SnooP-WiggleS

    SnooP-WiggleS Member

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    No surprise there steam surveys have always been useless imo particularly if you're trying to guage what current hardware is popular. Even AMD Cpu's still only have a 27% market share and not really moving despite being 75-85% or so of sales at retailers for quite a while now.
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-cpu-market-share-declines-august
    https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/amd-is-crushing-intel-in-desktop-cpu-sales-at-several-popular-retailers/

    I find this sorta data more useful (similar data in the moore's law is dead video), AMD is dropping GPU market share now below 20% thanks as the globalfoundries rx570/rx580 cards got discontinued without a corresponding big ramp up in RDNA2 capacity.
    https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/320744-amds-discrete-gpu-sales-bottomed-out-in-q4
     
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  17. groovetek

    groovetek Member

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    I mean, the above is true.... but Steam figures don't lie. Think about how many generic laptops, or Dell/HP/Acer prebuilts are out there sporting Intel CPUs, or nvidia GPUs vs AMD CPUs and/or GPUs.

    I think that the 75% of retailer sales being AMD CPUs is representative of the enthusiast market right now, but the enthusiast market is also just a small slice of the computing world.
     
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  18. micsway123

    micsway123 Member

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    jumped up from a 3080 ftw3 ultra to a 3080 ti ventus.

    out of the box its 6.4% faster than the ftw3 and about 11% faster than my old 3080 ventus.

    am I happy? not sure yet, feel it's all diminishing returns from 3080 up
     
  19. micsway123

    micsway123 Member

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    such a weird card, it literally performs better as the 3080 ventus did only even more.

    1900Mhz @ 0.875v boosts the gains over stock ftw3 from 6.4% to 10.1%

    upload_2021-10-19_20-14-51.png
     
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  20. havabeer

    havabeer Member

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    how much did you pay for both cards?
     

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