OCAU Server Upgrades

Discussion in 'Business & Enterprise Computing' started by Agg, Jun 11, 2008.

  1. Agg

    Agg Lord of the Pings

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    Soo, I'm starting to have thoughts about replacing the wimpier of our two servers. The criteria are:

    - 1RU
    - at least 6 SAS drives with the ability to run at least 2 raid arrays (one RAID1, one RAID10, possibly another RAID1 depending on drives)
    - at least 1 quad-core Xeon (or Opteron, I guess, but Xeons seem to be the biz atm)
    - at least 2 GigE adapters
    - Linux capable (SLES10 or non-commercial equivalent)

    Obviously this boils down to me having 1RU available and needing fast disk i/o for an SQL machine. Also lots of ram, but everything has that nowadays. The general plan would be to have a RAID1 array (2 drives) for the O/S+Apps+logging, a RAID10 array (4 drives) for the SQL, and if there are another 2 bays available, another RAID1 array (2 drives) for misc non-SQL data. or 2 hot spares mebbe. I don't really need 2 CPU sockets in this era of quad-core CPUs, but I don't seem to be able to find anything with only 1 socket but enough drives.

    Anyway, after looking around, the only two contenders I'm aware of are:

    HP's DL360 G5: 1RU, 2 CPU sockets, 6 drives
    Sun's X4150: 1RU, 2 CPU sockets, 8 drives
    IBM don't have more than 4 drives in 1RU
    Dell don't have more than 4 drives in 1RU

    Soooo.. I guess my questions are, are there any other options I've missed, has anyone used any of these ones, and.. am I missing anything obvious. :) Ta!
     
  2. Falkor

    Falkor Member

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    We just got 2 of those HP DL360 G5's

    Nice servers, we got a Raid controller upgrade too, so 512mb cache instead of 256mb which you may want to investigate if your going to have heavy Disk IO.

    The drives are neat little ones, like laptop HDD size. Not sure what size that is exactly? 1.5" ?

    Either way, looks like a great server so far. We will be hosting Vmware Nodes on them :)
     
  3. joe_sixpack

    joe_sixpack Member

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    I've evaluated the Sun x4150...

    It's a terrific unit, and has extremely good pricing. You can expect to pay double the price for a similarly configured HP unit.

    There is a rack at our data center that has about 20 of them installed, they look very sexy :thumbup:.

    I can't comment on the after sales/support on them as I never ended up purchasing them. (went for 2RU units from Dell). However if there hardware team is anything like their OS team, expect top notch support.
     
  4. Gecko

    Gecko Member

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    I'd probably go for the HP - simply because we're already running a pile of HP gear (mainly DL380's - right mix of size/price/performance for us)

    That said, I've heard some really good things about the Sun gear from a mate who works with it every day.

    As for alternatives, I haven't really looked too hard into 1RU gear for a while, but if what I saw 3-6 months ago is anything to go by, you'll be hard pressed to find another server that uses the 2.5" drives over the 3.5" drives.
     
  5. joe_sixpack

    joe_sixpack Member

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  6. spectral

    spectral rebmeM

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    I've looked at both, and once I optioned up the Sun to have the 8port SAS RAID adaptor, 8Gb RAM and 6 x 73gb SAS drives, the price was higher than the HP unit of similar spec.


    From memory the Dell Poweredge 1950 can do 6 drives. It has 2 x 3.5" and 4 x 2.5". Double check that though, bit hazy ;)
     
  7. memnoch

    memnoch Member

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    Supermicro and Sun both have 1ru systems with 8x 2.5inch SAS drives.
     
  8. jtir

    jtir Member

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    If you ever need to expand, go the Sun Fire X4150.


    Sun Fire X4150 vs HP DL360 G5 Server

    DIMM slots 16 vs 8
    Onboard GigEthernet 4 vs 2
    USB 2.0 5^ vs 4
    SAS/SATA drive bays 8 vs 6
    PCI-Express x8 slots 3 vs 1
    Power supply max 650w vs 700w
    Base Price USD $2,295 vs $ 1,579.00

    Sun have a 25% discount offer at the moment, so price is now $1721.



    ^ 1 USB port is internal


    References:

    HP
    http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/12476_na/12476_na.pdf

    Sun
    http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/validateUser.do?target=Systems/SunFireX4150/spec
    http://www.sun.com/servers/x64/x4150/specs.xml

    Inserted below the Sun marketing spin
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2008
  9. spectral

    spectral rebmeM

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    jtir: That price is just a "shell". The x4150 loaded as Agg as roughly specced above, with onsite support will be around $6.5k with the discount, or around $8.5K without. Then you take that price to your HP reseller, and they'll match that discount :)

    HP are real keen to get a greater market share in this segment. My HP guy has given me $5K off a Powercurve blade switch just to get some HP get into our racks :) (RRP is $18K for the 96port, quote was $12.8K)
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2008
  10. joe_sixpack

    joe_sixpack Member

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    IT gear from all manufactures is extremely overpriced. Discounts of more than 50% is possible on a lot of gear.
     
  11. Falkor

    Falkor Member

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    Even so, Sun gear has always been some of the most overpriced equipment i've ever seen.

    Sure, its good and it looks damn sexy. But I don't see why a HP server specced equivalently can't perform just as well. :)
     
  12. HeXa

    HeXa Member

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    yeah.. after all ugly boxens need some loving too :p
     
  13. lavi

    lavi Member

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    +1 we are in process of getting some as well

    DL360G5, we have them too but you need to get the extra cable to run all the bays....RRP from HP is too much ($430 iir), got them for US for $30

    The G5 is just simply put brilliant, not cheap, not alot of memory slots like the SUN, the iLO needs adv pack to work fully, only 2x GbE ports (SUN has 4) BUT it's just a very solid server, we have ESX 3.5 running on them and are very very very good

    NOTE: With us HP WRTY was and is superb and i mean SUPERB! never really had issues but to give you an example we found cheap a pair of quad core xeon for a DL380G5 but the system board in the server did not support the quad core only the dual core, HP replaced the board same day even thou they could of just turn their backs. We have about 30 HP servers both DL360 and 80's and never really had issues with them, most if not all are ESX hosts and SQL servers too

    keep an eye on grays and you'll find them from time to time for like $900 each, the 3 year wrty is fully transferable to you so it's all good there too
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2008
  14. jtir

    jtir Member

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    joe_sixpack- spot on about the discounts, especially end of quarter is near

    lavi- ilo advanced pack server license is a rort. Sun ilom works 100% out of the box, fully enabled, telnet/ssh/web.

    Yep thats right, shell base price.

    So if the HP reseller will match a similary specced DL360 G5, then it would be a no brainer decision on choosing the Sun badged box right?
     
  15. lavi

    lavi Member

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    true but the G5 has a funky panel with LED's that swings out, i like LEDs :p
     
  16. OP
    OP
    Agg

    Agg Lord of the Pings

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    I don't really care what it looks like, it will spend its entire life 2 hours away in a datacentre I hope to visit as infrequently as possible. :) Of course price, support and reliability are important though. I don't know if there'd be much to choose between Sun and HP in terms of support and reliability.

    The Supermicro is another interesting option.. presumably it'd be cheaper but support etc would be a concern. Seems a bit whiteboxy.
     
  17. lavi

    lavi Member

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    i'd go for the G5 only because i have never seen one fail, nor a DL380 and wrty is 1st class

    trust me the LED panel is very nice! has mem slots, cpu, fans, psu's etc we zoom in with an Axis IP camera to have a glance at it in some sites (SNMP for some reason don't work because of leased routers where we have no control over the ACLs, nor any email traffic etc.)
     
  18. hapkido

    hapkido Member

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    "Sun are real keen too (well throw in IBM and Dell while we are at it - never heard of vendor not keen....?).
    so take the HP pricing to Sun and get them to match or beat it...."

    In my opinion, they put more engineering into their boxes than the other server vendors, they are less similar to the Intel 'reference' designs.

    Oh, and this is Suns first Intel Server design - 9 months old already. Going to a meeting tomorrow to see what is coming out next - NDA stuff, but for $100 I could talk... :shock:

    And then look at their 2RU machine, the Sunfire X4450.



    Regards,
    Hapkido


    Is this when you add the Ilom and all the other bits and pieces (like extra nics) on the DL360?

    And even so, you still need dont have the same specs available in the DL360, as jtir pointed out.

    Firstly, you went from stating SUN are overpriced to saying that HP, similarly specced would perform just as well.... Which means...? A higher specced Sun is more expensive than a lower specced HP, but if you up spec the HP, it will perform just as well?

    Secondly, people just made the points in this thread with links that the Sun 'Wintel' boxes are competitively priced. A throw away comment or:-

    Maybe you are confusing Sun's traditional Unix server market, those based on the Ultra Sparc architecture - then its not really applicable is it. Kinda like saying that HP's high end HP-UX machines are just way overpriced by comparison. Servers in a different market used for very specific purposes.


    * The Sun X4150 servers are similarly priced, when comparing like for like - except you can't quite do this as the X4150 sits between the DL360 and DL380 specification wise.



    Regards,
    Hapkido
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2008
  19. OP
    OP
    Agg

    Agg Lord of the Pings

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    The 1950 III has an optional cage, so can have 2x 3.5" -or- 4x 2.5" depending on which cage you have installed. So not suitable sadly.
     
  20. bugayev

    bugayev Whammy!

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    I'd go with the Sun. We run HP and Sun and IBM in our datacentre and the ones that fail least, with the best recovery and response from support when they do, are Sun. We actually have about 90 x4150's running in our grid compute farm at the moment, along with a variety of others, x2100's (opterons).

    The stuff I work on is T2+ series, and they are seriously powerful servers.

    Our HP servers on the other hand, are, according to our sysadmins, just not quite as solid in terms of engineering and with the iLO and other add-ons that sun gives out of the box, you end up paying pretty much equivalent prices for something that (according to them of course), just doesn't feel as good.
     

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