Path to web design proficiency

Discussion in 'Programming & Software Development' started by zfind, Feb 6, 2008.

  1. Bradzac

    Bradzac Member

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    Ruby showpony? I've never used the language, I'm recommending it purely on reputation.

    Whats that supposed to mean? I'm not a php developer, I'm .NET. I'm going by market rates I see on seek and by wages I know good php developers are on. Sorry if our definition of a good wage are misaligned.

    There's only one person being short sighted here.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2008
  2. Nasher

    Nasher Member

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    Great post. I particularly liked the part where you told us how short sighted we all are, how wonderful PHP is, and ignored every single one of Bradzac's legitimate and relevant questions about PHP.
     
  3. platinum

    platinum Member

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    Ah excellent then, sounds like an informed opinion to be offering then. :tongue: :thumbup:

    Don't bother going by market rates on seek. Might as well base it on the ads on TV who tell you that the average wage in IT is $89,000 a year. :p Almost no company I know of bothers advertising on seek or the like. You simply get bombarded with 100's of international (indians) wanting you to sponsor them and their family to move over, and when pushed 99.9% of them don't have the skills in the first place, and just have applied for every job with the word "I.T." in it.

    Most good PHP/ruby/python/asp/etc developers move jobs by being head hunted, or by being referred to a job by people in the industry. It's very much a "who you know" type of thing, as it's really quite hard to gauge exactly how good a developer is until you've started working with them.

    Pretty sure I was reasonably open-minded about the languages I mentioned, I even made mention of the fact I like asp.net (which is what Bradzac uses), and answered the question as to what memcaching is.

    What questions did I miss?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 10, 2008
  4. Bradzac

    Bradzac Member

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    Well actually, yeah, it is. Much more informed then you I would bet.

    Or it could just be that there is a limited demand of php developers. But that's just logical thinking and you are just making excuses.

    Oh, as for the 89k/yr comment, you can get in line with the rest of the people who said I'd never earn as much as I am now in my entire career (hell by people in the industry too!). The average wage for a php developer may not be 90k, but don't hold that against the rest of us!
     
  5. platinum

    platinum Member

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    I think you may have misinterpreted what I meant. There is money in almost every langauge, I'm sure you're doing well and I have respect for that fact, I was never having a go at your wage or choice of language. The bottom line is every good developer will earn good money.

    I'm in the same boat, was always told by everyone there was no money in the web development, but myself and other web developer mates seem to be doing the best out of anyone so far in our circle of friends... it certainly is an interesting industry, and it's extremely hard to put a figure on people, as there are so many other factors to take into account.
     
  6. hyperstyle

    hyperstyle Member

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    I think you'll find there is a movement away from Service Orientated Architectures for scaling your internal architecture. It is inefficient and doesn't particually scale well dispite that's the whole point of a SOA. Most large php deployments are quite simple architectually. Sharding and cacheing is where it's at now.

    Actually memcache is a program and can cache pretty much everything except pre-compiled scripts. It is basically one big hash table with a key and value. You ask the server for key x and you get back value y. And yeah Php6 will have APC built in.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2008
  7. Bradzac

    Bradzac Member

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    That all depends on the implementation ;) and don't confuse SOA with JABOS (just a bunch of services).

    The problem these days is that people just create a bunch of webservices, stick them on a bunch of servers, and call it an SOA. Protip: That's not SOA style. (another protip, it's an architectural style not an architecture ;)).
     
  8. hyperstyle

    hyperstyle Member

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    I knew what you ment. And i don't like the SOA style ;).
     
  9. GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

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    I earn way more than you mate and I code PHP Mysq (LAMP).
     
  10. kndkris

    kndkris Member

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    For the most part, coding in general is not required for most web sites/online businesses. When you look at all the hosted solutions available thesedays you can save a lot of time and money, as well as getting a full featured site up in 2 weeks. Why reinvent the wheel?
    A good graphics design ability is nowadays one of the best paths to web design proficiency.
     
  11. GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

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    Agreed. Good Graphic design and layout is harder to find than good coders.
     
  12. Elyzion

    Elyzion Member

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    How long you been working?
     
  13. prezident doom

    prezident doom Member

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    It really depends on who you want to work for. .NET/Java solutions are far more common in large scale businesses. PHP/ open source solutions are more common in smaller specalised development businesses.

    But in my experience:
    1. Get a strong understanding of html + css
    2. Work on your graphic design skills
    3. Learn server side scripting (in any language)
    4. Play arund with database integration
     
  14. Soarer GT

    Soarer GT Member

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    ^^ what he said. Install Joomla and edit the templates in that to get your head around stuff.

    I'm not gonna even get into the arguement as to which scripting language makes more. But it's ignorant to say the PHP market is dead as it certainly isnt.
     
  15. GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

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    23 years commercially, started coding as a hobby in 1979.
     
  16. Elyzion

    Elyzion Member

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    And you wonder why you get paid more than me?

    I've only been doing it for almost 4 years, 3 of which were in the porn industry.

    So sorry if i lack experience to get a senior position salery. 76k still pwns for a 21yo junior.
     
  17. Tanus

    Tanus Member

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    You did time in the porn industry and were only getting 76K? You need better negotiation skills ;)

    I do both Java and PHP development, and find pros and cons with both. I generally find Java web development a painful experience at the presentation level (though Grails is really helping with that), but the lower tiers of application development is fine.

    The usual cliches apply

    • I've seen shit code in both PHP, Java and C#
    • Use the right tool for the job. There are many things that one platform is better suited than another
     
  18. sparau

    sparau Member

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    lol - i feel sorry for the OP - apparently there was a can'o'worms to be opened :shock:

    anyway - want to talk bad code?

    i never knew that vb (asp) had the "feature" that the last defined function of the SAME NAME would be used... ie. 1 site i was trying to fix i was changing functions and nothing was happening. Upon looking into it further the developer had decided that the easiest way to update the function was to just write another in a later include - vb doesnt give a rats if you redefine the same function, it'll just use the last one loaded :confused::confused::confused:

    i could continue about the spaghetti in the rest of the site but i wont.
     
  19. OP
    OP
    zfind

    zfind Member

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    Wow, a lot of passion from the different camps! I am a bit confused, I wont lie.

    I like this plan of attack. xhtml and css is what I KNOW I need to master first. It's the basis upon which alot of other technologies can be based. Graphic design is easy for me, so I probably wouldn't spend too much time on but pointed noted. As for scripting language, from what's been said I guess that (for maximum employability) it should be PHP, ASP.Net or maybe Ruby? I will need to review these more (note to the earlier poster who was pro-ASP, I spent a fair chunk of my day reading over an ASP book and it looked much more attractive than the first time around, especially coupled with VBScript which I could take to easily).

    And then comes DB work - Just SQL and Oracle or are there more I should consider?

    Thanks heaps btw everyone! (And yes, the can of worms has been opened and it's contents strewn all over the room) :D
     
  20. platinum

    platinum Member

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    That list you have there is a good one. If you can get -good- skills in html/css, graphic design and a serverside lanauge/db, you will never, ever be out of a job.

    As for the langauge, it probably doesn't matter all that much. asp.net is good, PHP is good. Ruby I would treat with caution, as it is much more of a niche market, although if you do find a job it is good $$. I was told of a few $110,000 ruby jobs going around adel lately.
     

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