Discussion in 'Programming & Software Development' started by zfind, Feb 6, 2008.
Real programmers use vi, and cli, and leave gui/rads for want-a-b's
2 weeks ago i was working on the weekend to get a project ready for launch on the monday.
The client rang my project manager and said American Express card had to be taken off the graphic of accepted credit card types. He doesn't have Photoshop on his pc so he opened MS Paint, cut out american express, moved 2 logos inward, then copied the gradient and moved it to cover the mess.
I was watching and i just found it highly amusing that he spent 10 minutes doing this when he could have just asked me to do it on my PC which had Photoshop.
Start with HTML and CSS after you have those two down learning PHP won't be that hard at all.
After understanding PHP you'll find that creating pages with PHP using includes is a fucking god-send. But pretty soon after that you'll find you wanna have more functionality from your sites and as your appetite for bigger and better projects grows you'll find that you have a need for databases...enter MySQL.
Now this path is more of a web developer/admin if you want to be a designer then I recommend after learning HTML and CSS you tweak your Photoshop, Illustrator and Flash skills. Then really concentrate on your HTML/CSS Code and Photoshop skills until you become really anal about it. I mean really anal...like using as little code as possible and weeping over a 1 pixel mis-alignment.
Right now in the web industry we have 3 roles in the web design field.
1. Artistic Designer (Comes up with mock ups and the graphics of the site)
2. Interface/Usability Designer (Codes the HTML/CSS and User Interface)
3. Back-End Developer (Programs the code to run the whole site - be it PHP, ASP, Coldfusion...whatever)
I see the first role probably being out-fazed or out-sourced in the future or merging with the Interface/Usability Designer.
Now I bet you're asking me...can't you do everything? Well, of course you can. But it's best to focus on one aspect so you can truly hone your skills in one area. But you should definitely know a little bit of something from each role and understand how it all comes together, but once again focusing on one area of expertise is best.
lol Gumby...it's true the back enders deserve alot of respect but I always found most back-enders I worked with had little to no taste in anything. They were all so bland and character-less.
ps the Op said web DESIGN proficiency... HTML, CSS, Dreamweaver, MS Expression, maybe move on to some flash or silverlight, photoshop, fireworks what not..... so technically thats what he needs to be proficient.
But honestly to the OP, if you are dabling, just play around with PHP, if you wanna learn more, get some education in it, tafe course or something - PHP, ASP.Net they each have their advantages... I hope you've learnt a valuable lesson about asking about which program language on OCAU lol
Hell yeah, I mean what's so complicated about ggVG"+y ?
How does one get into the porn industry as a programmer, sounds like quite a unique job (without taking into account have access to free porn ).
I don't think there is enough conflict in this thread, so I'll do my part in trolling: PHP sucks as a language, though as a tool for building websites it's easy to use and powerful. I found the lower level of PHP (compared to say, ASP) forces you to learn how websites work, there are no automatic hidden form fields, or variables tracking state, PHP only does what you tell it to.
While i was studying my friend was doing some side work as a designer to pay his course fees. We did a few big names including Massive Software (the software used to generate crowds for Lord of the Rings and 300 etc) (they also fucked the site up after they decided to being maintaince inhouse instead of paying me to maintain it)
One of the clients wanted some graphics done and while he was doing it for them they asked if he knew any programmers, he put them onto me. They wanted me to basicallly fix up some stuff on a modeling website. Nothing fancy, it was like $100 worth of work and it took me like 5 minutes to do.
When i finished my diploma in ecommerce i figured id ask if they had anymore work (not knowing they delt 95% with porn) since my teacher said it could take 3-4 months before i would get work.
I emailed them, and they replied the next day saying to come in for an interview. Went in, got a job. Was just developing a few websites. Then had a major project come in, XOVOD. Which was a online video streaming website using Vividas streaming technology. www.vividas.com
I basically built the business model for the site and developed the site using content from someof the biggest porn studios. So i know some of the owners of some of the companies personally.
Last year we put the site live in the first week of janurary. We did some advertising as AVN and went from about 50 members to about 8000 in about a month. After 3 months was doing around 2.5 million hits a month. We affiliated with Newbie Nudes, an amature porn site with over 1.5 million users. (one of the owners i still talk to, great guy, he lives in New Zealand, both owners are Australian ) and traffic went up even more. I was meant to be moving to LA to setup a office for XOVOD (we got an office next door to playboy) to do video encoding, because the studios had to send content to NZ, us moving there meant we only had to walk accross the road to get content since most of the studios are in a couple of miles of each other.
But in about the 4-5 month Vividas relised giving us an exclusive world wide license for Adult Content was a bad move because theres so much money to be made in the adult industry, so they screwed us over. The project ended up getting canned and they are in legal battles now.
Since the project got canned they planned a new project where I was meant to move to Texas to work with another investor. The project was similar but used Flash. I didn't wanna move to Texas, even tho it was the nice part.
3 weeks later i told my boss i was moving to Australia, 2 weeks later we had the erotica expo, 3 days later im in Australia.
I have never meet a "good" graphic designer who was also a "good" coder and visa versa, I have meet people who think they can do both.
I respect good designers, they are amazing, as I have NFI how to operate that sphere of my brain. Yes I can use GIMP and manipulate images and even create rudimentary graphics, but to get a layout with colour and form takes me ages, and at best is average. Watch a good designer and they will create the same in 5 mins.
Same for coding, my brother in law is a want-a-be coder and a descent graphics designer, his idea of a DB makes my skin crawl, his idea of structured code turns my stomach, and his use of GUI tools to do so.... well lets just say the most of his websites look and feel pretty much like the same.
Like everything in life, those works that truly inspire, do so because they are different...
I don't know, I wasn't talking about you.
I was replying to Soarer GT who was talking about Flanamacca's sig-PC.
Singstar isnt a game... It's a lifestyle!
This thread is resonating, i thought it was dying and I wake up to like 25 posts....
25 extremely informative posts of course..
Bulllshit , real programmers use the right tool for the job and are familiar with a wide range of tools. However good programmers are also good communicators and good problem solvers.
I've got a simple philosophy and it's worked well , I work as a consultant doing embedded projects , I take a profit share + retainer and If somebody doesn't meet my standards I don't work with them again and if possible I stop working with them on the current project. I'll probably have to be flexible when I start doing research consulting after I've done my PhD (taking the year off before I start to pursue a few consulting projects) about the profit angle but then if a project interests me enough that'll out wiegh it.
If your not a good communicator or a good problem solver then your no use to me.
I'll be honest the easiest way to rise to the top is to be good at what you do and be decent at communicating (unless that is what you do of course). Do what you love doing and enjoy being good at it and you'll have no hassles. The side benefit is if you don't become a rich bastard you'll still be happy.
I've met a few people who are good programmers and good designers because they understand that simpler can be better. It's all about getting a few elements right then getting a whole lot of them right.
When it comes to programming languages some I don't like either because of technical reasons related to the language,runtime/interpreter/compiler or the API. I'll admit though that the culture around a language can often play a part though.
Jesus christ way to dig up an old thread and entirely miss the ongoing joke.
Real programmers don't understand ongoing jokes.
get a sense of humor, but I will iterate again, real programmers, programmers who fully understand computer systems do not use GUI./RAD development tools, because at that level of coding there aren't any! Now take your windows develop tools and leave us real coders alone.
I have never meet any one who i would call a "good' programmer who was also a "good" graphic designer. i have meet mediocre coder/designers not "good". Obviously your definition of good is very very different to mine.
Wait, you were serious? You actually think that?
Love watching threads go wayyy downtown. Doesnt matter if you are the best coder, programmer, designer in the world, you are still the production managers bitch.
As i said way earlier, good design skills are the key to web design proficiency. Im talking layout, graphics, placement, colouring, knowing what your target audience likes and how to put it down on a web page. As far as programming goes, there are solutions available that can far exceed the ability of 90% of the developers out there, you get a cheaper, more stable, proven and most importantly quicker turn around on your project using these. So stick to design, your backyard programmer is on the way out.
Was going to not bother replying, but that is absolutely not true... sure if you're slapping a content management system into a $250 website for your mum, yeah it's a good option, but most of the work programmers do is on custom solutions, not re-inventing the wheel.
Joomla, oscommerce, and that style of cms are good for people who simply want a cookie cutter style, site-in-a-box. You're locked into using their "way" of doing things, you can't undertake too many major changes to the codebase, or upgrading to a newer version will be a huge chore, you are more prone to exploits and attacks, and no matter how hard you try, the site will still have that "generic xxxxxx site" feel about it.
Almost every successful online business rolls their own custom solution one way or another - part of the reason is that they need to be unique and be on the forefront of their online shop/site competitors, not following what the latest has-it-all-and-the-kichen-sink CMS decides to release that week.