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Perpetual Linux Distro Thread

Discussion in 'Other Operating Systems' started by Geo, Mar 30, 2002.

  1. GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

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  2. GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

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    Lead developer on Lutris having a whinge about community, made me laugh how he ended it.
    http://mathieu.comandon.org/not-on-the-same-page
     
  3. gdjacobs

    gdjacobs Member

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    Nah, one guy started freaking because the Wireguard dev found some ways that the code he was championing really, really sucks.

    Of course, it brings up the interesting question of why they were pulling largely untested, beta code into their mainline commercial project for which they charge people money.
     
  4. elvis

    elvis OCAU's most famous and arrogant know-it-all

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    "The Emperor's New Clothes" version of the software industry is the tale we tell our children/employers that proprietary software and commercial support somehow magically produces better code than open source.
     
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  5. gdjacobs

    gdjacobs Member

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    The software version of seeing inside the hot dog factory.
     
  6. GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

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    So 1 programmer doesn't like how the other programmer did it, how unusual, that never happens. :rolleyes:

    One approach was rushed had less time invested, the one "fixing" never posted a commit toward the fix / feature till after some work was done toward the outcome. Hmmm what motivated them, look a bit deeper. ;)
     
  7. cvidler

    cvidler Member

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    difference between coding something differently (which is perfectly fine, you do you), and coding something that is full of security holes when the original developers put lots of effort into avoiding those pitfalls - and when dealing with crypto algorithms is very important.
     
  8. waltermitty

    waltermitty Member

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    I would trust Jason A. Donenfeld more than the cheapest contractor Netgate could hire. pfSense sucks and I've run OpenBSD snapshots on my APU for years and years without issue...
     
  9. GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

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    I run IPtables / Shorewall firewalls for many years without issue, based on that logic any other solution to a problem must be superfluous?

    I get alot of people hating on current management decisions by Netgate, I hate on Redhat for some of their decisions over the past 5 years opinions are like assholes everyone has one. In this instance its political, Netgate decided to push a change without consulting Wireguard and the technical merits are sub-optimal, now Wireguard community are finally addressing the long awaited task of adding Wireguard to BSD... YOU BASTARDS!

    My current interweb connection proudly brought to you by pfSense.
     
  10. Quadbox

    Quadbox Member

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    Ya know I've got to say that I really dont mind paying sensible prices for commercial firewall products based on opensource codebases, where they provide appropriate support and obey the licence rules. And I dont think companies charging sensible amounts for it are doing any evil, either. Unless I'm somehow entirely missing the point of this debate anyway.

    I use mikrotik stuff, which fundamentally is just a well packaged linux distro on well curated hardware, and am happy to pay for it.

    EDIT - There have been times in the past where I've used consumer x86 stuff for core routing at home, and either configured it myself (gentoo-hardened, usually, cause I already run a bunch of gentoo machines and keeping it in the family eases the admin burden) or else run pfsense, but the routing performance per watt is... lousy as hell.
     
  11. gdjacobs

    gdjacobs Member

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    Donenfeld gave them credit for getting the ball rolling (which they deserve). As for opinions, I don't believe I recall Redhat shooting themselves in the foot the same way. I can think of lots of examples where guys like Dave Airlie and others got flamed for pushing patches that Linus didn't like. They didn't post responses in corporate communications accusing him of wrecking their business. It's never a good look for your customers. They've also never squatted a suse.net or ubuntu.org and posted stylized goatse logos on it.

    Also, just because you used pfSense in the past, you're not obligated to continue, nor is it necessarily the most appropriate for use in the future. Changes in the organization and leadership exhibited by vendors certainly factors into what we use (or don't).
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2021
  12. GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

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    systemd that is all I have to say, lets talk about it in 5 years time because those objecting are only "fringe" and the public behavior of Redhat sponsored personalities is exemplary.

    Not going to defend pfSense over reaction, society has forgotten how to filter their actions especially on social media.

    Not aware of these examples, you got some commentary on it as those domains do not show goatse.

    Correct, as new data presents itself about the technical and ethical merits arise I will redress my needs, when I have more time I will read more of the commentary that you have enlightened me with.

    NB - heated debates about programming merits within the kernel is only toxic when the person gets debated and not the technical merit, Linus has been guilty of this in the past. Others have exhibited the same behaviors and escaped any major repercussions for their actions apart from community ridicule, yet they continue to be sponsored and continue their poor behavior.
     
  13. cvidler

    cvidler Member

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    If you really want to see goatse, you don't need to search obscure tertiary locations - go straight to the source goatse.cx
     
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  14. gdjacobs

    gdjacobs Member

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    Point to an example where Kay Sievers or Lennart Poettering are endorsed by and speak on behalf of Redhat software as an entirety. They don't work for Redhat in corporate communications or from a "C" suite office.

    Netgate squatted opnsense.com and posted some pretty offensive content. The squatted site was registered to Jamie Thompson, the Netgate CEO and wife of CTO Jim Thompson (aka gonzopancho).
    https://web.archive.org/web/20160314132836/http:/www.opnsense.com/
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2021
  15. GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

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    https://www.zdnet.com/article/lennart-poetterings-linus-torvalds-rant/
    https://access.redhat.com/sites/default/files/attachments/demystifying_systemd_bbreard.pdf
    The public perception is Poettering is a Red Hat employee, no different to Folau being a Rugby Union employee, as a public figure can have negative public image, this causes issues for the commercial entity as they are seen as being aligned with the public statement.

    your posted example
    So your original quote was not www.opnsense.com, sorry my telepathy skills aren't that advanced, your new reference is new information to the conversation. Also was unaware of the opnsense site, I only gave a cursory viewing but could not find goatse anywhere on the site, perhaps you can supply a link.

    None of this excuses what seems to be a mounting viewpoint that is not as balanced as you believe, this doesn't excuse poor actors, again I'm not making a decision based on your opinions as your "evidence" changes scope. Based on your ethics I hope you don't use any Microsoft products, their representatives have been less than flattering in describing Linux and Open Source for decades, they have published many papers and websites denouncing open source, these actions according to you should leave a person with no option but to boycott the company in its total.

    PS - If I could get a multi-national corporate related domain I would parody the living fuck out of them via it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2021
  16. gdjacobs

    gdjacobs Member

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    Those examples were an off the cuff attempt to create an illustrative parallel which might exist if Redhat behaved similarly. BTW, the goatse clipart is in the header. You have to hide the Wayback nav bar.
    [​IMG]
    Redhat squatting OPNsense wouldn't really work, would it?
    I haven't found any balance, really. Netgate's main complaint is over proper attribution. The OPNsense repo had some changes committed which abbreviated some of the code copyrights (which is incorrect, of course). Netgate's reaction was, to put it mildly, excessive.
    I preferentially avoid them.
    Multinational? They're only multinational due to their embrace of the Internet as a market place. In either case, we're not talking about huge companies.
     
  17. GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

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    LOL... oh umm how dare they troll someone like that.

    Again out of context, the context was Pottering doesn't represent Redhat, I showed he did, and that his actions reflect on Redhat as a high profile Redhat employee.

    Would seem that evidence is mounting to suggest alpha nerd rage is common within pfSense management, makes you wonder what the opposition did to outrage someone that much, I was honestly unaware of this as I was more aware of Linus bashing 4 years ago, pity now I have to rethink my firewall.

    Meh I squat domains for any business that lets it lapse that I know of, sucks to be you if you let that asset go, I'll open a $2 shelf company and upload a landing page and hastily add a MX record with a catch all.. ;)
     
  18. gdjacobs

    gdjacobs Member

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    How do they dare? Presumably a massive sense of entitlement, a degree of immaturity, or both.
    I don't like Poettering at all, but he's a step or two down on the asshole scale. He's also not a Redhat executive officer.

    If we're talking about apples-to-apples comparisons, this is the dev who was Netgate's point man in the Wireguard port. Some know him as "The Landlord from Hell".
    [​IMG]
    https://www.sfgate.com/crime/articl...ncludes-prison-time-4610530.php#photo-4807805
    Some people don't need much provoking.
    Congratulations. I hope this fills your life with a sense of accomplishment. Personally, I'd prefer my devs to not focus on petty revenge.
     
  19. GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

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    I fail to see how him not being the CEO of a multi national has anything to do with his track record of being a complete asshat and sub-par developer who lashes out when someone calls him out.. he sounds like the contractor your naming and shaming in this thread, I believe he isn't the CEO of Netgate?

    And? So he's a grade A asshat and a shit coder who delivered a sub-par delivery, its not like media to sensationalize the news! :rolleyes: Please... he's obviously a shit human with little empathy, one day he'll be on the board of a multi-national.

    Sounds like you may have some personal agenda against Netgate, maybe full disclosure will help your course?

    Revenge... I don't even know the companies I have scripts looking for domains that are active but not been renewed and hope they remain that way for 30 days, especially ones with MX records. Some will say predatory, other will say entrepreneurial.
     
  20. gdjacobs

    gdjacobs Member

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    He legally has less authority in steering the ship.

    That's you. Netgate weren't picking on people randomly.
     

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