Plant Based Diets

Discussion in 'Geek Food' started by tobes, Mar 7, 2018.

  1. BurningFeetMan

    BurningFeetMan Member

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    One of my horticulture teachers suggested that if anyone is to worry about cancer, that she's seen more people than she can count taken from melanoma over the years, in comparison to no one that she's known who's died, or even become sick from glyphosate exposure. Anecdotal, sure.

    That's not to say that the stuff is as safe as water however. For who knows what domino flow-on affects these chemicals will have on us, our future generations, and all other life on Earth. I mean, as the herbicides are used, the plants themselves adapt and evolve, which they wouldn't have done in such a manner otherwise.
     
  2. RnR

    RnR Member

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    https://www.gentechvrij.nl/plaatjes...iseases_IV_cancer_and_related_pathologies.pdf - page 21 lists a number of pathways to cancer and other cellular shenanigans.

    I so need to go organic... just finished The Clever Gut Diet by Mosley. My little gut soldiers needs to be #1! :)
     
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  3. adamsleath

    adamsleath Member

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    big links between gut health and mental health too. better brain function. the organism is an interconnected chemical machine. neural activity relies on chemicals supplied in sufficient/optimal quantities, affected by diet and the microbial helpers that ensure adequate supply :D
     
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  4. peg

    peg Member

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    New heart foundation recommendations updated 8/23/2019:

    No limit on eggs:

    https://www.heartfoundation.org.au/news/new-diet-recommendations-matter-to-your-heart

    They are still strongly against butter and recommend no more than 350g of unprocessed red meat a week.
     
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  5. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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  6. miicah

    miicah Member

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    But butter is what makes things delicious?
     
  7. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Frying meat IN butter - now there's the good stuff!
     
  8. peg

    peg Member

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    This is why some people struggle with weight... but yeah, blame the carbs.
     
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  9. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Something something calories and moderation something...?

    Am I doing this "arguing the same old crap on the Internet" thing right still? Help me Obi Wan.
     
  10. BurningFeetMan

    BurningFeetMan Member

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    Then not even 20 minutes later....

    :lol:

    Have you tried going plant based before Elvis, or even considered it for addressing any number of *insert health condition/s*?

    I have, and am now 3 years going strong, and am running a marathon this weekend which I certainly wasn't doing when not on a plant based diet.
     
  11. bart5986

    bart5986 Member

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    You can say that about most diets though.

    Evidence has shown that most people who follow a diet will be healthier as they are being careful with what they are eating. The actual diet itself is not as relevant.


    I think its a little misleading to say "I've done X and now I'm healthy, plant based must be the answer for everyone else" when you aren't detailing your previous health history, and you aren't showing any evidence that you've followed other popular diets, and it hasn't worked. (And just saying I've tried everything else and nothing worked, doesn't count)

    The main problem with dieting is that people don't follow them, and a plant based diet is not special in any way for being easier to follow, but people who prefer plant based food would prefer to do a plant based diet.


    What is different about plant based diets is that other diets are not normally associated with cult like things for example watching and sharing super long videos that drone on about how the particular diet they follow is going to cure humanity and how other diets/foods are literally poison.

    Other diets generally just share recipes and techniques for following that diet, which is clearly not happening in this topic :lol:
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
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  12. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Have I tried it? No.

    Have I considered it? Yes. However I'm unlikely to pursue it. Why?

    Specific to my very specific health condition I'm not sure I can, mostly due to other issues brought about by very powerful and terrible medication I take that has side effects like shattering my haemoglobin counts, which require enormous amounts of iron supplementation (my medication is coated in the stuff). And that's only a small portion of the issues. IBS, water retention, hormonal issues that result in weight fluctuations, bone pain, muscle pain, severe muscle cramping in all major muscles, etc, etc - all part of the side effect of the very specific, very powerful medication I'm on (medication that's actually marked as "poison" and has poison control advice on it should other people or animals ingest it by accident. It can't be taken by pregnant women as it will almost certainly deform or kill the fetus). My diet has been carefully constructed over the last 11 years through both professional assistance and self-imposed trial and error (with a minimum of 6 weeks to attempt any change, and always doing my best to ensure controlled conditions by only changing one thing at a time) to the point where it's suited to me (and only me).

    BUT

    I'm not "normal". Quite literally I'm 1 in 100,000 statistically, due to my illness. So I absolutely won't tell you that a plant-based diet "can't work". I also don't believe in "average" anything, because average doesn't exist. So as much as various groups recommend various things "on average", that advice can be anywhere between ignorant and dangerous depending on the person receiving it, and the complex, unique biology that makes them up.

    I've seen a plant based diet work on people who were highly sedentary and getting on in their years. I've also seen a "high fat low carb" diet work on the same demographic of people who added resistance training to their exercise schedules. All measurable results for both (LDL/HDL measurements, blood pressure, hormonal levels, etc) worked very well for both groups, so I find it pointless to celebrate the success of one at the expense of the other, when it appears there's more than one way to skin this proverbial cat.

    I'm a scientist by trade. I believe in data, not bullshit. I believe in individual experimentation, not meta-analysis and aggregate pools. I believe in quantifying what makes two or more things in an experiment unique (genealogy plays a HUGE role in countless areas of medicine), rather than just assuming a nice big pool of random people are all the same blob of stuff. And I certainly question anything as complex as dietary advice to a population of millions, when it's clear food allergies alone are a good enough reason to warrant individual investigation, let alone longer term health impacts.

    Considering I have a disease where most people suffering it retire and find a short walk to the corner store exhausting, my current diet and exercise regime sees me participating in strenuous exercise that mixes intense cardio and weightlifting, working a 60 hour week and still being a competent father and husband. Some years back I attended a support group for people suffering my disease. What I saw was utterly incredible - two dozen folk who all looked minutes from death, barely able to get about, pale as can be. The group was a mix of sufferers and carers, and I was asked who I cared for. When I explained *I* was the one with the disease, there were audible gasps and comments like "but you look so fit and strong!".

    So, specific to *my* needs, I'm doing OK. Happy to continue experimenting on things, but as above my requirements specific to haemoglobin and iron levels means red meat will continue being a staple for me for a while yet (in moderation, of course). I still avoid a lot of grains, again mostly for IBS reasons (soluble fibre in the form of good quality vegetables are my go to). Experimenting with any of these things in varying amounts notably worsens my quality of life (testing and re-testing has given me that data). And I'm willing to test again, but there are other things on my list I'm experimenting with before then.

    Ignoring my health, and concentrating on the "sustainability" argument of plant based diets - that interests me greatly. Ignoring my own problems and even my own life span, human population continues to increase, but we're being pretty stupid about how we use resources. I think in 2-3 generations' time, there's going to have to be some very serious discussion about how humans as a species eat, regardless of health reasons, if they all want to survive at all.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
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  13. Perko

    Perko Member

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    He has listed a few issues he had, and to me it sounded like bad lifestyle and/or losing the genetic lottery.
     
  14. BurningFeetMan

    BurningFeetMan Member

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    Are you kidding me? Google any such diet and I can guarantee infinity articles and videos of all lengths and sizes banging on & on about them.

    Thanks for taking such time with writing down your experience. :thumbup::thumbup: As a side note, I too suffer iron absorption/exertion issues (regardless of diet, it brought on by lots of exercise) and decided to have an iron infusion earlier this year - this helped a lot and allowed me to lay off the iron supplements, giving my gut a bit of a breather. Looking at numbers, the IV brought me up to max iron/ferritin levels, and since 6 months I've consumed amounts down to halfway markers. Next test in 6 months will either be bang on empty again, or show signs of stabilisation.
     
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  15. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I'm glad to hear it worked for you. I know others who did the same, and it's done them wonders (maybe a little constipation as a side effect, but they have far more energy).

    Sadly it's very dangerous for me. Due to the already high levels of supplementation I'm forced on, I can't have high single doses like that, as it would do bad things to my already fatigued liver. My medical recommendation from both my oncologist and GP is "eat lean red meat frequently".
     
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  16. bart5986

    bart5986 Member

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    That can be true, but my point is that its not posted here on OCAU. That only happens for plant based diets :)

    I just thought we were all too wise here to start watching and turning to Youtube/conspiracytube for education.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  17. BurningFeetMan

    BurningFeetMan Member

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    Conspiracy? How is a plant based diet a conspiracy? What's the agenda, get the world to eat more potatoes?

    As for the missing video, I think it might have been this one, and if it wasn't, it may as well have been;

     
  18. frnak

    frnak Member

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    Fascinating to see the guidelines evolve as evidence matures. Only in recent times have we realised that dietary and serum cholesterol are not actually linked for most people.
     
  19. adamsleath

    adamsleath Member

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    https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/11-healthy-iron-rich-foods

    I've read that spinach has its own problems (it isn't the more readily absorbable heme iron), in terms of being a source of iron. good for some, maybe not so much for others.

    A very savvy dietition might be able to tailor it to the individual.

    i'm a fan of legumes (and tomatoes) myself:
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  20. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I eat most things on that list. I avoid legumes and tofu for reasons related to my medication side effects.

    Spinach is something I eat considerable amounts of. About 50/50 raw and (lightly) cooked. I think way too many people cook their greens unnecessarily and excessively, destroying most of the benefits in the process. Broccoli is another thing I eat raw in larger-than-average volumes, mostly in large salads.

    With the toll my training takes on my recovery, and with my avoidance of grains for IBS-minimisation reasons, despite also eating meat and fat by choice, I tend to eat more raw salads and vegetables than most vegetarians I know (typical evening meal for me is just meat and salad, with the salad being the bulk by weight, which should give you an indication of the serving size). Most of the vegetarians I know appear to eat a lot of processed potato, highly oxidised (i.e.: rancid) vegetable oils, overcooked vegetables and sugars. It's quite concerning that I know more and more dangerously overweight vegetarians as time goes on, who make poor choices around food quality even without meat in their diets.

    Combine that with a lack of desire to concentrate on exercise that emphasis bone, joint and muscle health (concentrating only on body weight rather than actual health), and its a recipe for disaster.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
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