Plant Based Diets

Discussion in 'Geek Food' started by tobes, Mar 7, 2018.

  1. c0ldm3th0d

    c0ldm3th0d Member

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    The wife has moved to a plant based diet in the last 6 months, she wants to go full vegan though and i dont think i can. I eat 5 out of 7 dinners vegetarian though. I only eat high quality meat cuts if i do and free range chicken. The more i think about it the better i feel though. I enjoy about 2/3 of the plant based meals but some /shiver .
     
  2. Kommandant33

    Kommandant33 Member

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    Totally...

    The issue is that people think it's binary - you either have to be all meat, or all vego - but I guarantee if you reduce your meat intake, you will feel much better. I would not want a life with no meat (quiet, Creekin), but I also accept that it's unsustainable for everyone to have such a meat heavy diet.
     
  3. OP
    OP
    tobes

    tobes Member

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    "Flexitarian" is the new Vegetarian apparently.

    After a couple of months of doing 1-2 meat meals a week I found I didn't really desire them strongly anymore. I seem to crave Berries more than anything else right now.

    As far as Vegan I don't think I can get there. Cheese is just too good! And vegan cheese just isn't at all good....
     
  4. Hater

    Hater Member

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    I don't understand vegan products like vegan "cheese", why call it "cheese" if the thought of real cheese haunts your buyers? Shouldn't it just be called... Soyzing or something and make a note from being different from actual cheese?
     
  5. OP
    OP
    tobes

    tobes Member

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    Totally agree with that. Even the *milks which I quite like aren't actually milk. It seems that milk means white liquid.
     
  6. recoN

    recoN Member

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    Likely because it's supposed to mimic the original product as much as possible. As odd as keeping the name is I do agree.
     
  7. frnak

    frnak Member

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    Restrictive diets are not intrinsically good. It is easy to make vegetarian & vegan donuts, but they are still extremely unhealthy. Sugar, vegetable oil and salt are 'vegan' after all, and these ingredients are probably more dangerous than most animal products. Our addiction to refined carbohydrates and lack of fibre in our diet is what's killing us, not the animal products.

    If you want to live longer you should follow the Mediterranean diet. Lots of non-starchy fresh vegetables and fish, moderate wine and dairy products and minimal red meats. Just ask Harvard. https://www.health.harvard.edu/stay...t-linked-to-longevity-say-harvard-researchers

    Only thing I avoid is soy. Soy based meat replacement products creep me out. I stay well away from phytoestrogens, but I concede that there's no good evidence that they are harmful.
     
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  8. BurningFeetMan

    BurningFeetMan Member

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    Yes, spot on. The binary observation comes into play when someone empathises with an animal raised for slaughter, be it for meat, skin or other products, and decides enough is enough. I watched some more footage of the live meat trade, the boat swaying about in high ocean seas, and the animals confined, cramped and covered in shit, spew & pus. It actually turns my stomach knowing I have eaten all walks of life in the past. Live & learn. Just as you wouldn't want a life without meat, many want a life without it - and have proven that it's not required to sustain a healthy & happy life - my own experience being a happier & healthier life too.

    We all have our vices. :) I love potatoes to the point that I dare say there is now an underlying addiction to them. Vegan cheese, and other processed vegan products are always hit and miss. I consider them junkfood and rarely eat them, with exception to Vegie Delight snags - they're awesome!!!


    Meh, I don't understand many product names, take hardware for example! i7 2600K, ti4200, Quadro M,P,K... and holy shit all these cloud services coming into play, the app naming is insane! o_O

    Yah, lack of fibre, but also nutrient density per calorie is also key. The more sugar & oil added, the less nutrient dense per calorie that food item becomes. Checking out that Harvard link now.

    EDIT: Paywalled... but fuck paying for it after reading - "and includes a moderate amount of cheese and wine." That isn't a diet. That is junk food.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
  9. recoN

    recoN Member

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    Moderate cheese and wine is junk food? Credibility disappears.

    The self-righteousness is overwhelming.
     
  10. frnak

    frnak Member

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    Indeed the energy density of modern foods is too high, while the nutrient density is too low.

    I disagree, I think biases are getting in the way. Alcohol drunk in moderation has been known to have a favourable effect on the cardiovascular disease risk profile for a long time.
    Admittedly cheese is a bit fat heavy but hasn't been associated with cardiovascular disease. Some feta sprinkled over a salad would still be a good source of protein.

    The diet has been identified since the '40s and has been studied for quite some time. There's a BMJ Meta-analysis and a Cochrane review, both favourable. Its even featured in popular news.

    Another diet worth reviewing might be the Okinawa. The people of the Ryukyu islands have a similarly long life expectancy (longest in Japan) and eat a diet low in rice or grains. They eat a low calorie diet high in fresh vegetables.
     
  11. mareke

    mareke Member

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    Not true. The companies that make and sell alcohol commissioned studies that showed this but they were flawed. When the studies were looked at carefully it was found that the non-drinkers had diseases like cirrhosis despite being non-drinkers. This is because drinkers who became sick from drinking alcohol and gave up alcohol were included in the non-drinkers group. This is known as the 'sick quitter effect'. When these people were excluded from the non-drinkers group alcohol was found to be a poison with even a moderate intake correlating with increased mortality.

    The doctor in the link below explains this. You can read the transcript of the video instead of watching the video.

    https://nutritionfacts.org/video/is...-23499993&mc_cid=1102c8fa9a&mc_eid=046562eba4
     
  12. BurningFeetMan

    BurningFeetMan Member

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    It's nice to think you held me with some regard prior to my statement. :) Soooo, I gather you're thinking cheese and wine are healthy foods then? :confused:

    My stance, be it self-righteous or not and I accept there would no doubt be exceptions, is I consider anything that I can't eat routinely & everyday as a junk food. Maybe, become as sick as I've been over the years, you'll be less on the attack and more understanding?
     
  13. Hater

    Hater Member

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    Works for the French.
     
  14. mareke

    mareke Member

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    No it doesn't.

    https://nutritionfacts.org/2018/05/...-23499993&mc_cid=498cf67a4d&mc_eid=046562eba4
     
  15. frnak

    frnak Member

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    Whether or not moderate drinking is harmful or beneficial is still a contentious issue. Studies have attempted to control for the supposed 'sick quitter' effect by comparing mortality with lifetime abstainers and still found a benefit. But not all studies agree.

    The uncomfortable reality seems that no one can make a clear determination. Hence why the NHMRC guidelines recommend no more than two drinks a day, but also notes that "low levels of alcohol raise HDL cholesterol and reduce plaque accumulations in arteries. Alcohol can also have a mild anti-coagulating effect."
     
  16. Hater

    Hater Member

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  17. frnak

    frnak Member

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    Indeed the Founder of NutritionFacts.Org (Dr Greger) has been criticised by Dr Harriet Hall (One of the Quackwatch contributors) for overstating health benefits and cherry-picking obscure unreliable studies to support some pretty wild claims.
    At the end of the day there's nothing certain in the universe except death, taxes and vegans claiming that diet is the cause of all disease.

    As Ben Goldacre said in Bad Science, "The most important take-home message with diet and health is that anyone who ever expresses anything with certainty is basically wrong, because the evidence for cause and effect in this area is almost always weak and circumstantial…"


    https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/death-as-a-foodborne-illness-curable-by-veganism/
     
  18. Kafoopsy

    Kafoopsy Member

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    The reason is that people (such as myself) enjoy eating cheese, but know that it is one of worst foods out there so people try and make something that looks, tastes and acts like cheese, but is healthier. In my opinion, so far, all attempts have failed. No cheese substitute is anywhere as good as the real thing. So for me it is the real thing or nothing - at the moment I seldom eat cheese mainly due to it being very unhealthy.
     
  19. mareke

    mareke Member

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    I agree with you on reflection. Some under reporting of heart disease as the cause of death may partially explain the French paradox but there are other factors involved like the French habit of drinking wine with a meal, taking more time to eat, not overeating and their diet including lots of plant food. I gave up eating cheese many years ago due to the high calorie and fat content. I also gave up alcohol and have become a 'sick quitter' because alcohol knocks you around more as you get older.
     
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  20. BurningFeetMan

    BurningFeetMan Member

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    Watching some of her vids now. Not a fan of her "alternatives medicines" vid which is the first that I've clicked on. It's like - hurr-durr-no shit sherlock, stating the obvious about what is clearly and utterly snake-oil. I will continue with her other published works and see what she has to say.
     

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