programming career == bad choice?

Discussion in 'Programming & Software Development' started by MotorAce, Jan 11, 2003.

  1. GoMeZ

    GoMeZ Member

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    Hit the nail on the head here ...
    very true.

    my cousen is sitting on Jobs at both IBM and MS because he knew ppl, they didnt really care about what qualifercations he had, so in the mean time he is deciding which Job to take.

    Great world isnt it : /
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2003
  2. LoRdo

    LoRdo Member

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    Thats depressing. He didnt get any other experience during uni?
    ....poor guy
     
  3. Long Haired Git

    Long Haired Git Member

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    Reminds me a of job advert for (profession removed to avoid flames) I read once.

    It explicitly called for people with no experience or skills in (profession removed to avoid flames).

    They wanted extroverted people with good interpersonal skills, good customer facing skills, good team work, sense of humor, and all that sort of stuff.

    That stated it was easier to take a person and make them a (profession removed to avoid flames) then it was to take a (profession removed to avoid flames) and make them into a person.

    :D

    This is why "who you know, not what you know" works. People are risky. The qualified ones can boil rabbits (Fatal Attraction) on weekends and stuff. People stick to people they have met and got on with, and figure skills can be transferred pretty quickly.
     
  4. phreeky82

    phreeky82 Member

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    i'm starting to get really worried now,being in my final year of an IT degree (3 yr).

    i'm actually a 4th yr uni student, starting Comp Sys Eng/Comp Science, couldn't handle having to do some chemical eng stuff (required at my uni)

    at least i have some experience with MATLAB and other engineering software. i consider myself much more experienced in programming than others in my course, but only through personal interest, which is harder to demonstrate/prove.

    i've decided to do more project management style subjects this year as i believe most companies are looking for an IT person that understands how projects must be won. they don't want to talk about tech stuff - computers to them are just another tool. know the companies, and know how to talk to them.

    i'm worried :(
     
  5. Fusion Warrior

    Fusion Warrior Member

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    My personaly opinion about computers is that yes it's becoming flooded and every year more and more people want to do computers for a living. I'm not trying to degrade computers as a job but someone told me that eventually, there is going to be 1000 applicants for a computer job, but only 100 available jobs. Whereas if you go into say like someone said a chemical engineering which would be great, or something like being a Plumber (messy work which no one wants to do) or electrician, as sooner or later for those type of jobs there is going to be 100 aplicants for 1000 jobs. That's just the way i'm starting to see it. You may think different to me or think i'm a complete idiot but you really just have too look around, and talk to people that have worked with computers for years as a profession.
     
  6. LoRdo

    LoRdo Member

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    www.seek.com.au

    search the IT jobs. Try and find 1 job that doesnt need a minumum of a years experience in more than one field. Even a job offered to junior graduates still required "6 months - 1 year" experience...

    ouchy
     
  7. saba

    saba Evil Vizier

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    Thats very unusual. I have a few friends that went down the Chemical Engineering route and they are all pulling $80k+ after tax.
     
  8. Superpuppie

    Superpuppie New Member

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    surprised no one has suggested this yet...

    but if it's money u'r after, why not consider a career as a ho?

    :D

    it'll be more fun than forcing yourself to keep up with the IT sector...
     
  9. beamso

    beamso New Member

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    As a software engineer, I have to respond to this. Software engineering isn't a bad career choice, if it's somethings that really interests you. If you're just looking for money, don't. Its more important to enjoy your job and to choose something thats suited to your interests, style of working and personality. If you like your job and are competant at it, you'll get your reward.

    As for the IT job market, it's down, simply because so is the industry. I've recently lost my job because of this. Grad wages are down. Experienced wages are down. Wages rises are down. There are less people in jobs changing for jobs. Most are waiting for a turnaround (if any). Oh, and around 73% or jobs aren't advertised. That's why networking counts.

    In terms of your degree, it is important to have one. Ones without them may experience glass ceilings later in life. It's also important to improve your education later in life. One degree may not be enough.

    Also, it is most important to get the best marks you can in your degree. Marks do mean something. Maybe not to you, but what about potential recruiters? Its their opinion that counts.
     
  10. FlameHead

    FlameHead Member

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    That's refreshing beamso.

    My friend says that the marks are super important if you hadn't had a lot of experience.

    But in a more general sense, they look for avaerage marks and experience.

    That's what he said anyway. I got my first project through my marks, so I think he could be right.
     
  11. Bone

    Bone Member

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    Hey, im just wondering
    whats the difference between software engeneer and computer engineer?

    Software engineer seems to have more UAI mark requierments than Computer Engineering.
     
  12. mattmckenna

    mattmckenna Member

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    I've been a programmer/analyst/consultant for about 7 years and I find my job very challenging and rewarding.

    It pays quite well, but you can't expect to get 60K when you first leave Uni. You might think that Uni teaches everything you need to know, but trust me - You will learn heaps more in your first few real projects.

    I'm in Perth, and when I started about 7 years ago I was on about 30K. I'm not telling what I get now :)

    If you don't enjoy it, and aren't willing to continue self-education on your own after you leave Uni, then forget it - Go and choose something else.

    One thing you notice quite quickly when you start working, is that there are "programmers" and there are "real programmers". Real programmers are those people who are always learning. Always finding better ways of doing things. Always reading about the latest developments. If you are one of these people, then you will enjoy the job. If you are not, then maybe you will get bored after a while.

    Just my thoughts...
    Matt
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2003
  13. mark|

    mark| Member

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    A software engineer knows how to use logic for particular parts of his/her program (ie iteration). A computer engineer knows how this logic is formed (in terms of voltage levels, transistors, logic gates - low level crap).

    Basic example, but the computer engineer should have a broader understanding of what is happening (although you can argue you don't need it if you only program gui applications etc).

    edit: and you comp engy should have a lot more maths heh
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2003
  14. Bone

    Bone Member

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    ive always been told that comp engineering has every thing in sw engineering plus what you said. Is that crap talk?:p

    thanks
     
  15. tmpreston

    tmpreston Member

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    Comp engineer can have very good programming skills and learn the same things that a software engineer HAS to learn but that doesn't mean they do. I'm sure there are software engineers that know all the comp engineering (hardware,gates, etc).

    I did a project with 2 comp sys engineers and another software engineer (at uni) and I was the only one who could do any Assembly programming. Something I'm sure ALL Comp Sys engineers should know.

    It depends on how much you learn and WANT to learn that determines what skills you pick up from uni.
     
  16. DRILL SGT

    DRILL SGT Member

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    I hope that I get accepted into B (infromation tech) [ie d'base, bit of lan admin, and programming] B Applied Science (mathematics) majoring In Data communications and Software Development. (IF58 @ QUT)
    I would hope to lean towards Data communications of exiting uni as opposed to say applications programming. The course can lead to 7 or so possible carreer choices, hopefully allowing me to get a good job. I agree there are too many "institues" offering watered Down IT courses. Even their advertisements make me cry showing a brick layer(nothing against you champs :)) suddenly get transformed into a coding badass.

    Hopefully IT will die back down and n00bs will go to Biomedical areans and leave us alone.

    Thats what I hope for in the next 5 years anway. Feel free to disagree if you wish.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2003
  17. wokket

    wokket Member

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    The QUT IT courses are getting watered down as bad as the rest of them, SD1 isn't even proper Java, it's dodgy, watered down, I don't know an object from a stick Java.....bring back procedural for intro to programming for christs sake....

    btw, I'm a product of QUT, and it was getting watered down even while I was there, my Ex is now tutoring/lecturing there, and as much as the lecturers wan't to keep it solid, the pressure is being placed on them from higher up, to keep attendance/ dropout /graduation rates nice and happy.

    I think I'm gonna do up a rant about watering down uni degrees :(
     
  18. DRILL SGT

    DRILL SGT Member

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    Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
    Not QUT as well, we are all fuX0red. :/
     
  19. [SweN]

    [SweN] Member

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    Well just like everyone else im an IT student. bout to start my 3rd year, and extreamly discouraged like everyone else. i guess im a pessimist.

    but lots of people fail to look at the bigger picture. one of the main reason the IT job market is flooded (IMHO) comes back to the school system. and in particular Career Advisers. Ya know the ones, those people that tell you what you might be interested in doing after school, the ones that tell you, you wont get anywhere in life without a degree etc. Yeah we all know them.

    I freaking hate these ppl. they are like the brain washers of the school system. lets look back at the last 3-5 years in IT. there was a huge shortage in IT personell, so the IT career path got flogged off to all the impressionable school students. The required O.P. for IT positions dropped for IT, IT gets another flogging. IT becomes flooded with inexperienced graduates, theres no demand for them, the required O.P. skyrockets, the overall acceptance drops remarkably, Advisers steer away from IT almost alltogether.

    now because of this, all the dodgy ACA shows (not ACA in particular, but all the barrel scraping reporters in the world) are proclaiming there is going to be a huge demand for qualified IT personell in 4-5 years. But then, a forcast like this isnt hard to come up with. the IT industry will only get bigger. If there is less and less job seekers, it will become easier to get a job in time.

    I guess the moral of my story is. If your looking for a career, go with what you love, and are passionate about. If your still in school, take any advise with a grain of salt. You dont need a shrink, or advice most of the time, you only need to realise your passion. Money isnt everything, you want quick money after school? goin the Army.

    /rant

    and as for uni's watering down degree's, well it had to happen. to many fucktards in the wrong degree in the first place, and too much emphasis on out-of-date info. bring on the technical programming classes. but first, find some non-postgrad students to do the lecturing. To many lec's with nfi what they are lecturing.

    /mini-rant
     
  20. ratsock

    ratsock Member

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    PHP:
    if (jobs >= workersthen
    {
    programmingcareer goodchoice;
    money lots;
    }
    else
    {
    programmingcareer badchoice;
    money notmuch;
    }
    Edited: spelling.....
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2003

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