Retr0brite extreme fustration

Discussion in 'Retro & Arcade' started by jeremybh1, Jul 5, 2014.

  1. jeremybh1

    jeremybh1 Member

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    Hi Everyone

    Quick read: Strong efforts to Retr0brite plastics and nothing happened - sick to my stomach with frustration of availability of proper products in Canberra that other countries get without fuss. Specifically neat Hydrogen Peroxide and TAED based (critical) Oxygen laundry products. What to do?


    Today I attempted Retr0brite-ing some keyboards and casings to a Macintosh SE. I was careful to mix the ingredients properly, apply the product with a pastry brush, reapply after a few hours etc. Nothing happened.

    At a loss as to why, I put a 2 hours into re-researching Retr0brite and I think I've found out why it didn't work. The American and British 'Oxy' cleaners are NOT interchangeable with Australian laundry products labelled Oxy-

    I tweaked when I read about the activator 'TAED' http://retr0bright.wikispaces.com/TAED. Online guides written by kind folks in other countries refer ]] to Oxygen laundry products without mentioning the key activation ingredient - TAED. This site gave me a clear explanation on why you need it (http://www.chemicals99.com/oxygen-bleaching-agent.html
    "TAED is mainly applied in the detergents as an excellent bleach activator to provide effective bleaching activation at lower temperature and lower PH value. It can greatly boost the performance of peroxide bleaching to achieve more rapid bleaching and improve the whiteness."

    Guides can be too simply in specifying their products, which is probably useless as brands differ in countries. However we know the TAED is a non negotiable. I used "Sard Wonder OxyPlus", so I cross referenced the MSDS and discovered NO TAED. Instead it's based on stupid Sodium Percarbonate.
    A-ha I says! BTW here is the MSDAhttp://www.colgate.com.au/Colgate/AU/Corp_v2/ContactUs/MSDS/pdf/sard_wonderoxysoaker_sweetindulgence_2012.pdf

    I checked the Coles and Woolworths house brands of cleaning products that mention anything close to Oxy in the title. Again none contain TAED.
    For the record heres the MSDS for Napisan Oxy:
    https://kmcdistribution.co.uk/download/2542
    Again no TAED>

    So that's two major brands, Napisan and Sard Wonder with Oxy- products lacking TAED *cries* haha

    What is everyone successfully using here down under? Sorry for the rant but I'm sick to my stomach with wasting my time thinking the Sard Oxy product was fine.

    Oh photos I put on Imgur for you guys. Well intentioned but failed.:
    http://imgur.com/a/WjisN
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2014
  2. HeXa

    HeXa Member

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  3. flu!d

    flu!d Ubuntu Mate 16.04 LTS

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    I got 20% peroxide from the local Hairhouse Warehouse, sat my casing's in a tub, poured the peroxide in and painted the items with a brush, stuffed a blacklight over the tub and got fantastic results....

    Stuff mixing up some retrobrite solution...

    The UV blacklight is very important, without it literally nothing happens.
     
  4. OP
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    jeremybh1

    jeremybh1 Member

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    @flu!d I found the same product at HHW but upon closer inspection it has some (apparently!) nasty stuff that the Retr0brite Wikispace declares as unsuitable. Ended up buying a pharmacist brand 6% solution.

    @HeXa I guess that's what I'll buy next! Good find! Where was that an hour ago lol

    I'll revisit this after I get back from a trip to QLD - family needs some help.
     
  5. flu!d

    flu!d Ubuntu Mate 16.04 LTS

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    I read about the apparent issues using about using a peroxide solution that wasn't pure, and I ignored them compleately and didn't have a single issue, I restored an A500 and it looks like new again.

    6% peroxide is not strong enough.
     
  6. cavanor

    cavanor Member

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    Is oxyper suitable? The cleaner you buy for homebrewing beer?
     
  7. callan

    callan Member

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    Actually, I'm rather glad you can't get neat Hydrogen Peroxide - it's fucking dangerous, explosive and unstable. HAIRDRESSING peroxide (which is %20 or so) is quite readily available - although if you start ordering it in 44Gallon drums you're likely to get a few questions.
    My efforts at retrobriting have been quite successful, and I just used Vanish Oxy (saturated solution) - a UV lamp, and giving it a 2 day suntan. There are some photos HERE.

    You're totally wasting your time if you don't use a UV lamp - Seriously.

    Callan
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2014
  8. flu!d

    flu!d Ubuntu Mate 16.04 LTS

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    I'm with Callan, neat hydrogen peroxide = bad for overall health and wellbeing.

    No UV lamp = Waste of time.
     
  9. OP
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    jeremybh1

    jeremybh1 Member

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    Ahh so I decided to take some film of my fourth attempt at Retrobriting my gear. And it worked a treat! No after photos from this fourth round yet. My video is educational though so see the consistency. The Extended keyboard II was literally yellow before. It's had four treatments though, with the last to smooth out streaks.

    Video link added:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM0fYrjtzKE

    Important tips are:

    - Definately use a blender to gum up the liquids. Mixing Xantham by hand isn't easy or acceptable

    - Choose a day with no wind

    - The thicker the better.

    - Disolve your Vanish brand Oxy powder with a tiny amount of hot water before adding to the peroxide

    - Only use https://www.pricelin...40-vol-200.0-ml


    Use a foam brush to apply your goop. I made the mistake of using a silicon pastry brush which worked well to smooth things out, but when upon drying I noticed streaks from the brush. I found my foam brush in a pack of 5 from a dollar shop.


    So yeah after four goes, two working and two failing, I've got my technique down pat.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2014
  10. JidaiGeki

    JidaiGeki Member

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    Would be good to see your retrobriting vid, have a yellow Extended Keyb II here too in need of treatment :) the keys are still perfectly beige though!
     
  11. callan

    callan Member

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    Great effort, and good to know! I'm not wild on using the strong stuff, but you have done well. Good tup about the brush, too.

    Callan
     
  12. the3coopers

    the3coopers Member

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    Seems to me like an incredibly difficult method.

    Why not just dip the parts in liquid, so you don't need to fart-arse around with the brush and the blender and the clumps and the streaks?

    Serious question - I cannot see any benefit whatsoever in doing it that way.
     
  13. flu!d

    flu!d Ubuntu Mate 16.04 LTS

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    If you get the 20% peroxide from the local Hairhouse Warehouse it's already thick, you don't need to do any more than tip it in a tub add a UV light and add yellowed plastics - It works fine.
     
  14. OP
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    jeremybh1

    jeremybh1 Member

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    Hey guys

    I absolutely agree my method is time consuming etc. If you notice the original Retr0brite instructions, that's what they dictate. I was trying to follow the rules haha.

    Benefits to this method:
    - Suits limited space inside
    - Can cover larger areas - what about a Macintosh case, or something too big for a tub?
    - Inexpensive - you don't need to buy litres of stuff to submerge.

    Do I wish I could just dunk stuff with a lamp on and come back to white goodness?! Yes! I don't have the facilites. Simple really. The UV light I found at Magnet Mart didn't look promising, it was labelled as a party light. I don't have the tub, funds to by enough for submersion, something to hold the light etc. So I follow the original instructions and I get okay results :weirdo:
     
  15. flu!d

    flu!d Ubuntu Mate 16.04 LTS

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    The UV light I used was labeled as a party light, UV is UV, they work fine.

    Mac cases aren't that big, the object doesn't have to be submerged.
     
  16. Flamin Joe

    Flamin Joe Member

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    After becoming disgruntled with my previous retr0brite attempts, I've decided after much deliberation to try it again. Previously I was just using the Napisan + 1 x UV "Party" Light but only got moderate results. This time I'm giving the Peroxide a go and I've brought another couple of "party lights" lol to increase the amount of UV light and improve coverage (which I think was a problem).

    Went to Priceline the other weekend but I couldn't find any of the 20% stuff. Ended up picking up a couple of 1000ml 12% bottles. I later went to Hairhouse Warehouse just to see if they had anything stronger, but no 12% was the max they had too. It's going to have to do.

    These are the lights I'm using, Nelson 20W ES CFL Ultra Violet Party Light and I've got them mounted in these cheapies, Arlec 40W Ahura Clip Lamp. The idea is that these will be clipped onto a piece of wood I'll have on top of a clear tub and that being flexible I'll be able to direct the light exactly where I want it for even light coverage. That was another problem I identified in just having the one light previously. I could of gone with a tube light but I like the idea of having a bit of flexibility.

    Hopefully I'll get the chance to do it this weekend. This is the part I'll be doing:

    [​IMG]

    The photo doesn't do it justice as to the naked eye it's actually a slightly darker yellow. Also the one up top is my previous attempt and actually looks great in the photo. But if you look at it close up in the light the bleaching is uneven and still has a slight yellow tinge (again the photo doesn't bring it out). It was never as yellow as the bottom one though so the heavily yellowed plastic will be a good test.

    Question, how safe would it be to finish off the top one if all goes well?
     
  17. Holden__V8

    Holden__V8 Member

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    flamin joe howd you go with the nelson 20w globe and your latest attempt?

    I have done it before with 50% peroxide and oxy booster but out in the natural sun it took me days maybe 4 painfull long days of going outside every 20 mins to re coat the plastics i was doing it on worked in the end but took 4 days.

    if that nelson 20w globe works on straight 12% peroxide i will give it a go in the next couple of days
     
  18. Flamin Joe

    Flamin Joe Member

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    Totally forgot about this. :) I did one attempt, leaving it going all day and checking it probably every hour or so. The result was a slight deyellowing, in some places uneven, but it was working....just....slowly...... It's not worth taking a photo as it's hard to show the difference with my camera but I can definitely see it had an effect.

    Haven't made any attempts since, got put on the backburner with my time being taken up with other things and I was also a bit disappointed in the results which zapped some of my enthusiasm. I think it really does need the Oxy Boost and without it I'd imagine it would take a few days to get any decent results.

    Still questioning if it's worth the effort to be honest.
     
  19. the3coopers

    the3coopers Member

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    You need to stop fiddling about with the "gel idea". That is never going to work properly.

    You need a liquid,and you need to have the liquid circulating so that the active power is evenly applied to the surfaces.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2014
  20. the3coopers

    the3coopers Member

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    That won't work very well either. All the UV from a spiral lamp like that is going SIDEWAYS into the inside of the lampshade. Only a tiny proportion will be emitted, the majority is being absorbed by the white paint and re-radiated into the lamp itself.

    These are an extremely poor choice of lamp. You need to get some 20W LINEAR fluorescents and a decent silver reflector. This will also mean that your UV is evenly applied to the objects - the absolute last thing you want is "spotlighting".

    PS: Please note that I am a lighting engineer with over 30 years experience.
     

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