Retro display solutions (monitors, TVs, CRTs, flatscreens, upscaling, calibration)

Discussion in 'Retro & Arcade' started by elvis, Jul 24, 2018.

  1. badmofo

    badmofo Member

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    Right so the post Oct batch might be a way off. I'm feeling lucky that these projects exist at all so won't complain - I still haven't gotten how awesome the 1541 Ultimate is for example, and I've been using that for years :thumbup:
     
  2. gdjacobs

    gdjacobs Member

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    1600x1200 monitors with DVI can usually take HDMI in via an adapter, of course. Every high end model I've tried handles the digital signal, no problems.
     
  3. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    The picture component of non-HDCP HDMI is identical to DVI. So any DVI-in monitor can take HDMI, and you can buy splitters for the audio.

    I've not seen a whole lot of DVI capable CRTs though. You find them here and there, but just getting your hands on any CRT lately is tough, let alone special case ones. Most folks have thrown theirs out, and the handful of people selling them on eBay/gumtree have caught onto the insane CRT hype of late and prices are heading north again.

    Even VGA PC CRTs, which up until about 6 months ago weren't expensive, but today are rising every time I look.
     
  4. Vanne

    Vanne Member

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  5. badmofo

    badmofo Member

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  6. power

    power Member

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    yeah effects light guns
     
  7. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Generally no no, sometimes OK if you can turn the 100Hz processing off, but that's rare.

    Typically made for home theatre enthusiasts, not gamers.
     
  8. BuuBox

    BuuBox Member

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    Issue with using a 1600x1200 PC LCD is the poor scaling and that the RetroTink 2X outputs in 480p.

    I've been looking for something newer than my current 480p plasma for old consoles. Tried a Hisense 39" 1080p LCD, but it was a step backwards from the 13 year old plasma. Noticed it's already getting difficult finding new sets with analog inputs.
     
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    OSSC/RetroTink2-X are a must if you're buying a modern display.

    Go the OSSC if most of your stuff is outputting RGB.

    Go the RetroTink-2X if most of your stuff is outputting composite/s-video/component.

    If you want colour range, go OLED. It's got a wider gamut than both LCD and Plasma, and can do true black.

    Resolution-wise, that means UHD (aka "4K", but that's not technically correct, and a whole other rant). Integer divisible into 240 and 720, but not 480 (neither is 1080p though).
     
  10. gdjacobs

    gdjacobs Member

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    Yup. I'm not ruling out the existence of DVI-A (analog) monitors, although if they exist they're probably rare.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
  11. Vanne

    Vanne Member

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    hmm yeah 100 hz prob not great for light guns, but I don't play light gun games, so as far a nice quality (sub lightguns games) Louwe TV's are really nice (they are actually all Philips tubes)
     
  12. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    The problem with the 100Hz processing is many of them treat 240p like 480i, and you end up with really bad combing effects through your games on fast-moving titles. Sometimes lag is added too.

    Fire up the 240p test sutie (freeware download for most consoles that you can push to a flash cart). In there are some nice moving graphics options. The two that show off how bad 100Hz TVs are are the drop shadow test:
    http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?title=240p_test_suite#Drop_Shadow_Test

    and the scroll test:
    http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?title=240p_test_suite#Scroll_Test

    Very easy to see straight away if a 100Hz TV is any good for retro gaming.
     
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  13. self_slaughter

    self_slaughter Member

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    So in going the other way, does anyone have any recommendations for a good downscaler?
    Something to go from a modern graphics card (1080ti) down to a 240p or 480i signal for output on an old crt / possibly arcade monitor in the future?

    Been searching a bit, but most information on such setups is rather dated.
    The Extron Super Emotia seems to be along the right lines, being able to downscale hdmi 1080p right down to 240p.

    Would be fun to test on say a n64 emulator running at 1080p, then downscaled back to 480i, then pushed out to the old trinitron.
    At the moment I use a ps3 running retroarch, hooked up to the trinitron via component. Looks glorious on the old snes games etc. but lacks the power to run newer stuff.
     
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I'm not well versed in downscalers, but the ArcadeVGA is a nice card for spitting out 240p/480i modelines:
    https://www.ultimarc.com/avgainf.html
     
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  15. Vanne

    Vanne Member

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    Thanks Elvis, appreciate it mate, what is a good TV then for old skool games? I see a few Trinitrons out in ebay land too.
     
  16. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I'd describe the "golden unicorn" of retro CRT TVs for 240p style gaming as:
    * All-analogue controls / inputs
    * Curved 4:3 screen
    * RGB, Component YPbPr and S-Video inputs
    * Multi-sync (50 and 60Hz), Multi-region (NTSC and PAL colour space)
    * Good vertical line count
    * Easily-accessible controls for geometry, screen position, brightness and contrast
    * Either colour temperature, RGB gain/bias controls or hue/saturation controls
    * Can handle non-spec sync (e.g.: NES/SNES sync)

    The mandatory stuff is the all-analogue bits (no digital signal processing, no 100Hz processing). If you've got that as a "must have", the rest are just added convenience.

    In Australia we were lucky enough to get a lot of component YPbPr input TVs with all-analogue parts, common in 52cm/21", 68cm/26" and 78cm/30" models.

    Jump on your local council website and you can often find times and suburbs when "curbside collection" is on. Even if you find a TV that's a bit crap and missing inputs, you can always have a go at modding them for RGB inputs if you're up for a challenge (usual "be careful of high voltage components" lecture goes here).
     
  17. self_slaughter

    self_slaughter Member

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    Gumtree is always worth looking at. See big old TVs come up pretty often. Picked up this bad boy for $20. No svideo/scart etc. though.. PS3 has native component out, so works well enough for emulation at least. No 240p though. :( No remote unfortunately, but had an old Sony VCR remote with a TV switch which works to get into geometry options etc.

    Can see where I drew an arrow where the old retroarch menu lined up as it was offscreen before I found the remote to fix the geometry a bit. :D

    Should look into what mods are available. Never even thought of that!

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
  18. WuZMoT

    WuZMoT Member

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    Retroarch on PS3 is one of my favorite setups, sure no 240p but cheap, component and wireless controller straight out of the gate.
     
  19. oculi

    oculi Member

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    If you want 240 and wireless it's pretty easy to get a PS3 controller talking to a bluetooth equipped raspberry 22/7
     
  20. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Interlaced video is a deal breaker for me when it comes to CRT gaming. Gives me serious eye strain after about 5 minutes.

    Interlaced video was designed entirely for video content, and not gaming where you're staring intensely at fixed characters for long periods of time.
     

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