Retro display solutions (monitors, TVs, CRTs, flatscreens, upscaling, calibration)

Discussion in 'Retro & Arcade' started by elvis, Jul 24, 2018.

  1. nimmers

    nimmers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,176
    Location:
    Sydney
    Yeah this socials source was Undamned and Frank_fjs on Twitter. Frank got one and said it works fine. I wouldn't class an Aliexpress OSSC like clone everdrives or whatever because this is an open source project right? Should either be built to correct spec or not.

    For the record though I got an AliExpress SD2SNES ages ago and its been working fine for years, side by side with one my friend bought from StoneAgeGamer the PCB is identical, I would bet that they were both assembled in the same place.
     
  2. power

    power Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Messages:
    58,873
    Location:
    brisbane
  3. OP
    OP
    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    36,979
    Location:
    Brisbane
    SD2SNES is open source. But yeah, EverDrives are closed/proprietary.

    Yeah, if a factory makes 100K units, sends 80K units to the seller, and keeps 20K for themselves (say, they were earmarked for failures, but the failure rate was low), open source or not it's likely to be pretty compatible.

    I've dealt with Chinese for manufacturing and import on and off over the years, and all of that is pretty normal. I know a lot of folks get upset when the Chinese undercut you on your own product, but that's the payoff for dealing with their cheaper manufacturing. The alternative is to make it in a country that abides by competition and intellectual property laws, but then your manufacturing price is an order of magnitude higher.

    "You get what you pay for", as the kids say.

    Heh, the pros and cons of the unwashed masses catching on to things. Getting CRTs was trivial, until RetroRGB did his videos, and then they all vanished, and folks started selling them for hundreds on eBay. Such is life.
     
  4. power

    power Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Messages:
    58,873
    Location:
    brisbane
    retro in a nutshell.
     
    elvis and nimmers like this.
  5. nimmers

    nimmers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,176
    Location:
    Sydney
    Sorry, yeah that was the point I was trying to make. These guys are lazy so if you can download a legit Gerber and BoM they would probably do that instead of trying to reverse engineer. I guess you'd just need to worry about them using crappy quality components or leaving off non-essential components. If it's not up to snuff you can always just get a refund.
     
    elvis likes this.
  6. flain

    flain Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,335
    Location:
    Sydney
    Funny how the unofficial one comes with the overlay on the remote, i got the official one and whenever i want to muck around with it i need to look up a pdf to see what does what on the remote :/

    That said supporting the guys who put the effort into creating it isn't a bad thing
     
  7. OP
    OP
    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    36,979
    Location:
    Brisbane
    IntegerScaler for modern Windows PCs:
    http://tanalin.com/en/projects/integer-scaler/

    Removes unwanted scaling in low res pixel art on high resolution displays. Particularly useful for anyone sporting a sexy new 4K monitor who wants to play indie or retro games without bilinear filtering.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2019
  8. OP
    OP
    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    36,979
    Location:
    Brisbane
    New official versions do too, now.
     
    flain likes this.
  9. badmofo

    badmofo Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2011
    Messages:
    999
    Location:
    Australia
    My mouse cursor is hovering around the Buy Now button but stuff like this in the description worries me:

     
    elvis likes this.
  10. WuZMoT

    WuZMoT Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2002
    Messages:
    1,830
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Retrotink Ultimate (RPi 3 b/b+ Hat) is back in stock if anyone is interested in getting 240p out of their Pi3 b/b+ at higher quality than composite.
    http://www.retrotink.com

    I was on the mailing list for it for months but in the meantime purchased a Shinybow SB-2840 + UMSA Ultimate Scart Adapter. I was possibly still going to pick up the retrotink and have the Pi as a backup but I have 2 x spare ATI 7XXX/3XXX GPUs with Analog DSUB so I'm unlikely to need it now.
     
  11. Camm

    Camm Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2010
    Messages:
    864
    My kingdom for a Extron DVS 650 ad. It'll give me a lot of versatility in dealing with content, in particular routing HDMI to BNC and RGB to HDMI, but the damn thing in the a (audio) d (bnc) guise is a fucking unicorn, and damn it if I'm after both.
     
  12. bolex17

    bolex17 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,155
    Location:
    Adelaide, 5010
    My old Bandridge switch died so decided to splurge and get a Hydra2 (https://lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=162)
    Works really well! currently outputting to my RGB monitor and OSSC..
    Takes a bit time of tweaking the OSSC to display right for each console, but its definitely worth it!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2019
    self_slaughter and elvis like this.
  13. OP
    OP
    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    36,979
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Nice setup! Are you a streamer?
     
  14. bolex17

    bolex17 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,155
    Location:
    Adelaide, 5010
    Thanks mate, nah not a streamer. Just someone who fell too far down the RGB and retro gaming rabbit hole :p
     
    self_slaughter and elvis like this.
  15. OP
    OP
    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    36,979
    Location:
    Brisbane
    So there was some chatter in the "recent activity" thread about CRTs, specifically PC monitors in the VGA/SVGA and up range. I'm talking the 4:3 31KHz variety you would have had from the 386 VGA era and up.

    These can't be connected to old consoles, obviously. They expect not only an RGBHV (separate horizontal and vertical sync), signal, but also a 640x480 / 480p / VGA signal or higher (double that of a standard 240p console).

    However, via things like a RetroTink-2X, OSSC or MiSTer, these connections are possible. The RetroTink-2X and OSCC require a lag-free HDMI to VGA converter (typically these are just a cheap DAC, and don't do any scaling or filtering, which is exactly what retro gamers want). A MiSTer needs the IO board with VGA connector on board, and to be configured for doublescan mode with RGBHV output.

    The end result is a picture that matches or even exceeds a Sony PVM or BVM for sharpness, albeit with 2 scanlines instead of 1 for every line of information.

    It's difficult to take photos of displays at the best of times, and a shitty digital phone camera on my ancient Samsung Galaxy S6 is especially bad. So none of the following images do the display any justice. But use it merely as an indication, and test for yourself.

    I've got a HP P1120 CRT, which is basically a rebadged 21" Sony Trinitron flat screen CRT. Specs put it at a maximum resolution of 1920x1440@75Hz (not too shabby for a 2001 display!). I've had it doing 120Hz at lower resolutions too.

    I've also got a shitty "Base" Chinese made domestic TV. 30", bloody huge. Newer manufacture date, but designed for domestic TV at SD resolutions.

    Here's a macro shot from back when we were playing Earthbound for Retro Let's Play. I managed to zoom in far enough to see the shadow mask clearly of the SD CRT with a dot pitch of I'm guessing about 0.50mm? Hooked up via RGB/SCART through a YPrPb converter, so the signal is sharp to the eye sitting back a couple of feet from the screen.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_mask

    earthbound_macro.jpg

    And now a shot from the HP P1120 / Trinitron, with the aperture grill display and 0.24mm dot pitch, hooked up to my MiSTer running at 640x480 / 480p / VGA output, scandoubled (exact SNES modeline, only doubled - this should look almost identical to a RetroTink-2X/OSSC dong a 2x scale out to a VGA monitor).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aperture_grille



    earthbound_macro_trinitron.jpg

    So you can see clearly double the horizontal lines, and also the much finer detail. I'll try and get this all hooked up to my 20" PVM for another comparison shot in the coming days.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2019
    self_slaughter likes this.
  16. OP
    OP
    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    36,979
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Some better shots. Click for huge.

    [edit] Forums scale these down to 1600 pixels high, but the originals are 2160 pixels high. I'll host them somewhere...

    [edit2] Have a couple of SLGs (Scan Line Generators) on order from China. Will re-test the PC CRT with those inline when they arrive.

    Everything out of the same MiSTer and IO board setup.

    1) Late 2000s consumer 30" CRT TV, YPbPr , native res
    Huge: https://i.imgur.com/Xcw6mIW.jpg
    1.jpg

    2) Sony 20" PVM D20L5A, RGBS, native res
    Huge: https://i.imgur.com/PTWx3Oh.jpg
    2.jpg

    3) HP P1120 professional 21" PC CRT, RGBHV, doublescanned
    Huge: https://i.imgur.com/CviiLFa.jpg
    3.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
    nimmers, power, mR_CaESaR and 4 others like this.
  17. power

    power Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Messages:
    58,873
    Location:
    brisbane
    oooh shiny.
     
  18. WuZMoT

    WuZMoT Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2002
    Messages:
    1,830
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Interesting comparison, the coarser dot pitch produces a sort of smoothing/anti-aliasing effect which is not without its charm.
     
  19. OP
    OP
    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    36,979
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Ironically, despite being an owner of several PVMs, I spend most of my actual retro play time on the 30" (top picture). For both size reasons and the natural smoothing reasons you mention above.
     
  20. power

    power Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Messages:
    58,873
    Location:
    brisbane
    at some point i'm going to be torn between my Commodore 10804S and a Dell 19". I think I will choose the Commodore, just for the look of it rather than the actual display as the RGB to the Commodore is really good.
     

Share This Page

Advertisement: