Retro Let's Play: "Doom" (1993)

Discussion in 'Retro & Arcade' started by elvis, Dec 1, 2017.

  1. Aussiejuggalo

    Aussiejuggalo Member

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    The exact reason I stopped buying consoles and moved to PC. Sad thing is most new consoles can easily run emulators for old games or previous gen consoles but don't because... more money in rebuying.
     
  2. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    To be fair, Steam is still DRM. If you want a digital distribution system that is pro-consumer, your only options now are GoG for all titles, and itch.io and Humble Bundle for some titles (varies title to title).

    GoG are currently my go-to, precisely because of their anti-DRM stance. While still digital, if you back up your GoG installers, they will always work offline in the future even if GoG go broke and turn off their servers.

    OK, let's not turn this into a childish "Platform X vs Platform Y" fight. The bad guy here is Bethesda for doing something stupid and anti-consumer. Hardware platforms are a moot point, and none of them are perfect nor worth getting religiously dogmatic over.

    If you do want to pick a platform fight, it must be retro to live in these forums. I will only accept "Amiga vs Atari ST" fights, or "Sega vs Nintendo" fights like I used to have in the school yard.
     
  3. Grom Hellscream

    Grom Hellscream Member

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    That's not even a fight mate, everybody knows Nintendo wins hands down.

    ;)
     
  4. simontifik

    simontifik Member

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    I was so ready to pick up Doom on Switch until I read all the Bethesda.net login crap!

    I’m not normally too annoyed by DRM and account logins, it’s just a fact of modern gaming but on Doom it really rubs me the wrong way. Doom was huge due to the shareware model and was pretty much open source birthing a huge modding scene. Locking it behind an account is a big insult to that legacy!
     
  5. Reaper

    Reaper Member

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    That scratch must have stung. You get to have your rants and everyone else is just being childish. Whatever, we all see it. Modern consoles still are fools errands when they then try to justify them against the pc. Everyone knows the true platform that is "winning" is mobile and that makes everyone loose.
     
  6. Aussiejuggalo

    Aussiejuggalo Member

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    I know Steam is a DRM but it's still the most popular one. Steam really still is pro-consumer in most ways, they do take a decent percentage of sales from the Devs but they also have servers all over the world with probably petabytes of games alone.

    Yeah but the problem with GoG is if they ever do go broke and you lose your installers you lose the games. While GoG is big they still aren't anywhere near as big as Steam, GoG could still go broke or have something major happen, with Steam it's far less likely. I do like what GoG is doing though, for me personally Steam is just easier.
     
  7. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I'm not sure why you're looking for a fight where there is none. No, nothing "stung", and I'm not emotionally attached to the financial success of mega-corporates (not to mention the fact that I own an enormous amount of computers and consoles going back decades, so there's no false dichotomy or tribe for me to side with here). All I want is for this little subforum to continue being a good place to chat, and not devolve into a third area infested with unnecessary "PC vs console" wars. The world is more interesting than "red vs blue" nonsense, especially when there are more than two choices, and you can own all of them without choosing a side.

    And if you're really going to push me into choosing "PC vs console", then I choose "arcades". Because when forced to choose A or B, I always like to choose C. :)

    Fair points, all acknowledged. However counter points:

    * Steam being "popular" is good, but doesn't stop the DRM problem. DRM is a problem *at all*. Popular or not, PC or not. And yeah, it's obviously a real challenge to balance pro-consumer DRM with not screwing over loyal customers, while not being screwed over by pirates. So I'm not unsympathetic to either side.

    * GoG vanishing does mean you lose your installers if you didn't download them. Which is why I recommend people (a) use GoG, and (b) download and back up their installers immediately. That way you're safe, even if GoG vaporize (which I sincerely hope they don't, because I really like their business model and philosophy, and will continue supporting them with my money).

    Ah, the memories. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
  8. cvidler

    cvidler Member

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    backup. it's computers 101 stuff. and it's your responsibility


    threats to Steam/any other DRM publisher are many, varied, and far more likely, and most are out of your control.
    - go bust
    - get bought out and new owners change the rules
    - original devs revoke publishing rights
    - want to make more money so change the rules
    - couldn't be asses to spend the dev time to keep the old inventory up to date/supported cause there's no money in it
    - get your account banned
    - lock yourself out somehow.
    - internet unavailable at the time you want to play it.

    I'm sure there's more way's it can leave you fucked.

    +1 for supporting GoG and any publisher not retarded enough to DRM everything.
     
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  9. mAJORD

    mAJORD Member

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    Sort of - I dunno how it is legally speaking, but you don't need Steam to play once you've Bought it.
     
  10. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I was under the impression games wouldn't start if they can't contact Steam? Or is there some sort of offline compensation thing?
     
  11. mAJORD

    mAJORD Member

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    There is an offline mode - well I think there still is. But irrespective of that, I should saide my comment was specifically for Doom, and any other dosbox games, - once you buy that $2 pack and download, You don't need steam at all to run them obviously since they're just Dosbox + all the Doom files jammed in a folder
     
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  12. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Oh right, well that's good to know.

    I do know most of the retro Steam bundles allow you to pluck the game data out and use it in other things. A recent newly released MegaDrive game called "TANGLEWOOD" (stylised all caps) did this. You can buy it on Steam, and extract the game itself to run in any emulator or flash cart on real hardware of your choosing. I think that's a pretty nice way to deal with digital distribution of old games.

    Great to know DOSBox bundles are the same. That's certainly the way they are on GoG too. Any DOSBox bundle is pretty trivial to get up and running on any DOSBox (or ScummVM if it's compatible) on literally any hardware or OS that supports it.
     
  13. flain

    flain Member

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    I still see value in these being re-released on modern consoles. They aren't asking much and you get to enjoy some netplay with randoms who aren't super gods at the games because they, like me probably also just saw it pop up in the store and decided to buy it (which i haven't in this case yet). If they can remove the DRM i'll happily add these to my ps4, however screwing up the music.. lets see if they fix that one in addition to the DRM first.
     
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  14. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Digital Foundry breakdown of the new ports:



    Summary specific to Doom1/2:

    * The DRM implementation sucks. Especially if you use sleep on Switch, on wake it's stuffed.
    * Scaling is crap, results in uneven pixels due to lack of scale filtering options standard to other retro releases
    * Aspect ratio is wrong!!!
    * 35FPS cap remains from the original game, which worked in DOS at 70FPS (half screen refresh, no tearing/judder), but looks crap on a 60Hz TV and on the Switch screen.
    * Brightness/lighting issues compared to the original
    * Music sucks - no midi wavetable emulation, pre-recorded, muffled sound, and it runs too slow
    * Sound effect range is muffled

    Considering Nerve (the developer) is founded by ex iD/Rogue staff, and that these problems don't exist in free (GPL / open source) engines and homebrew ports, this is very disappointing.
     
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  15. power

    power Member

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    let the Switch shovelware continue.

    i haven't watched the video yet but I assume the word disappointing is used - df should call it out for what it is a lazy cash it.

    I was scrolling through the Switch store sale last night and yeah - the switch is the new wii. Junk games, lazy ports, and even worse a lot of it is over priced.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
  16. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    It really makes me sad. No secrets that I'm very much in favour of modern ports and re-releases of old games so that new players can experience them, but I simply can't recommend this to anyone.

    At $5 for a competent copy, it's the sort of thing I would have easily slapped on younger relatives' consoles and said "Oh, you think you're an FPS god, here, play this!". But not with the crap going on in these ports, I won't.

    It honestly makes me wonder who are doing these ports, and what their basic understanding of playing games for enjoyment is. A 10 minute sit own with anyone who played the original game would have illustrated all of these issues.

    John from DF is always articulate but fair. "Disappointing" was used quite a lot, and he's right.

    The video was good for pointing out the audio and video problems. Even if the DRM was fixed, I still wouldn't buy this port due to those.

    The "Switch tax" is fascinating. I'll often buy indie games on Switch instead of other systems for the portability. But yeah, that price hike stings.

    It's a weird world when Sony are your cheapest option for a game out of PC, Switch and PlayStation (I'm looking at you, Hollow Knight).
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
  17. badmofo

    badmofo Member

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    Years ago I paid a few bucks for a port of DOOM for my iPhone - it was pure novelty and I "played" it for maybe 10 mins. Maybe whoever is cranking out these ports have that in the back of their mind? It's hard to get motivated about something when you suspect people won't play beyond the first level.
     
  18. power

    power Member

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    nah the Switch is currently a goldmine for anyone with some old games to re-release because Nintendo.
     
  19. OP
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    elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I thought the same at first, but it's Nerve Software:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerve_Software

    You would think someone of their calibre would give a shit. This whole thing feels like they gave it to the work experience kid.
     
  20. power

    power Member

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    I quite like MVG's video on this garbage. Ignoring the DRM, he looks further into how crap it is.

     

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