Running RAID-1 with M.2 (SATA) port and a regular SATA port?

Discussion in 'Overclocking & Hardware' started by AbRASiON, Oct 22, 2019.

  1. AbRASiON

    AbRASiON Member

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    Hey, my favourite collection of hardcore nerds,

    Built a machine for someone who wasn't the best at backups.
    We're working a solution for this, but they also would like RAID1 just for the heck of it.

    The board for them is an AsRock Z370 ITX/ac. Apparently it does support RAID-1
    Does anyone know if you can do it with an m.2 SATA drive (in there now) and a regular 2.5" SATA disk
    (Note the M.2 is in SATA mode, obviously)

    Can you RAID-1 an M.2 and SATA port??
    Alternative is to put the M.2 in a SATA adapter but that sems a litle shonky.

    Thoughts? Anyone using 370 series chipset and done this?
     
  2. demiurge3141

    demiurge3141 Member

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    Just use software raid.
     
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  3. ruffdayz

    ruffdayz Member

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    Just because you can't doesn't mean you should.

    Non Enterprise SSDs don't do terribly well in RAID1 (hardware or software), due to excessive writes.

    I'd go with 2 x 2TB+ standard drives in RAID 1, and just use the SSD as OS drive and non critical data. Cheap as chips these days.
     
  4. macktheknife

    macktheknife Member

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    If the backups are important then do it properly, with two regular NAS drives in the machine setup in raid, or even a proper NAS Enclosure like a Synology.
     
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  5. terrastrife

    terrastrife Member

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    wait what? more writes?
     
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  6. ruffdayz

    ruffdayz Member

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    RAID 1 using SSDs you shorten the lifespan of both drives (SSD write cycles) in parallel due to identical writes/mirroring (rather than striping).

    So SSD1 and SSD2 end up having the same writes to them when it comes to data.

    In this example above the OP wants to use a standard (mechanical) 2.5" HDD and an SSD in RAID 1, meaning they'll degrade the SSD in the same timeframe as the mechanical drive.

    If that makes sense?
     
  7. terrastrife

    terrastrife Member

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    Considering that write life cycles far exceed usage these days, no. Using mehcanical drives which will have combined increased wear on the moving parts makes less sense.
     
  8. spit051261

    spit051261 Member

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    I use RAID 0 for my m.2 .
    I have used BIOS and Intel tool to do it .
    Runs sweet with either and fast as :).
    Never seen the point of striping in RAID 1 TBH.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
  9. Ratzz

    Ratzz Member

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    Given that RAID1 is mirroring, not striping, I can see how you would feel that way...
     
  10. spit051261

    spit051261 Member

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    my mistake , won't happen again and I am sorry .
    This place is full of smart arses
     
  11. Ratzz

    Ratzz Member

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    It's also full of smart people, all of whom certainly possess arses but many who don't use them to speak with. Many people on this site do the stuff they comment on professionally and simply know more than you (or I) so don't be surprised if they pull you up when you make throwaway comments. I don't claim to be one of those professionals BTW.

    The point of mirroring is redundancy, making a backup copy of something on the fly. The point of striping is speed, at a heightened risk of losing data, because you only need one of a pair of drives to die and you lose the lot.

    And, to play on words, the point of striping is redundant - when it comes to the sheer speed of modern SSD technology it's just not necessary or worth the risk, especially without also mirroring. In the old days of spinning rust, you either use 4 drives, and employ RAID 0+1, or many drives so you can have a parity drive setup in any number of available RAID array types, or whatever, but unless the data you are storing is unimportant to you, you don't use RAID 0 on its own.

    I've used RAID 0 many times in the past, but I've only ever used it for a striped OS drive with all data going to other drives, on the premise that I can simply reinstall the OS if I have a failure, inconvenient but no big deal. I've striped data arrays too, back in the day, but only in combination with mirroring.

    These days though, for all but some very specific professional use cases, even with a simple basic SATA SSD speed is so good that striping is pretty pointless really, and even more so when it comes to NVME.

    So to rephrase what you said, correcting your mistake, 'I don't see the point of mirroring in RAID 1'.. I've just explained the point. And why its far more important than RAID 0 unless you don't value your data.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
  12. spit051261

    spit051261 Member

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    I know what RAID is , I am using RAID 0 on all my drives .
    I made a mistake by mixing up striping and mirroring .
    As I said , I am so sorry and it won't happen again , please forgive my ignorance .
    BTW I use raid 0 , although it can be risky , for speed .
    I make back ups regularly so don't see the need to waste hard drives on RAID 1.
    As I said earlier though , please forgive my ignorance in the presence of all you smart people and I really don't need a lecture on RAID but thanks anyway .
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
  13. ruffdayz

    ruffdayz Member

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    I'm just going to say it (since nobody else has yet)... RAID is NOT a substitute for a proper backup strategy.

    It was never designed for (and should never be used for) that purpose.

    The purpose of RAID is to allow one (or more) drives to fail, and continue on working without data loss, until that drive is replaced.

    As drives get faster and larger, some RAID levels of the past will begin to disappear, until we (in my opinion) will probably be left with the likes of RAID 1, and RAID 10.

    RAID 0 will get largely eliminated by large capacity single drives.
    RAID 2/3/4 are rarely used these days.
    RAID 5 is starting to get phased out.
    RAID 6 is still used in servers due to multiple drive failure redundancy.

    Then there is nested raid levels.

    No .. no it's not good enough. The crime for spreading of misinformation is punishable by head in the stocks at high noon, and pelted with rotten tomatoes... them be the rules!

    Seriously... don't worry about it and don't overly apologise.

    This forum was built on peoples opinions and will survive on that.

    I tend to agree, but it's asynchronous vs roughly synchronous wear. I see it like buying a Ferrari, ripping out the 6L v12 motor, and replacing it with a 1L 4 cylinder motor "just because they both allow the car to drive".

    It's crippling the performance of the SSD simply to create a RAID 1 array and protect data.

    In my opinion the smarter option is SSD for OS and separate high capacity NAS rated drives (SATA/SAS) for storage of data. That is unless the OP can afford 2 x 2TB or 4TB SSDs (that said wow those 2TB SSDs have come down in price now!) ... When I bought my fancy Samsung 512GB SSD it was like $300, and now not that much more gets you a 2TB!

    *Looks at his almost full 2 x 3TB mechanical RAID 1 array and shed a tear*
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
  14. cvidler

    cvidler Member

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    Correct it offers exactly zero protection against, cryptoware, virus attacks, accidental or deliberate deletions/overwrites, electrical damage (storms/lightning), theft, fire, etc. etc.

    Backups are additional copies (multiple) stored off line and ideally elsewhere, and tested regularly.

    All RAID does is protect against drive failure - and even then it can't protect against all failure modes.
     
  15. OP
    OP
    AbRASiON

    AbRASiON Member

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    Sure, they are extra paranoid though, NAS, USB , Cloud - all being added AND raid.
    They request it, I build it - I just want the money TBH :)
     

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