Discussion in 'AMD x86 CPUs and chipsets' started by luke o, Dec 27, 2018.
Yeah, very promising
"Samsung will begin mass production of 14 nm Intel CPUs in the fourth quarter of 2020"
Intel.... starting mass production that late while still on 14nm..
Intel is going fabless? AMD is such a trendsetter
Generally agree with everything you have to say mAJORD, but Phido is bringing up some valid points - I agree that it is 'sucky' that they are pushing for higher prices with this generation. No two ways around it, they are increasing the cost of the product for arguably limited generational improvements, especially when compared to the generational improvements for the dollar of nearly every generation before.
Plenty of legit reasons for some increased costs, that is true. But the increase of US$80 (that will be AU $120+ minimum here) on the Crosshair Hero is a bit of a stretch for a replacement product line IMO. Most of the real benefits on that board are all down to the X570 chipset (PCIe and USB), but I guess it also has a smidge larger heatsinks (now with a tiny fan that may clog up and die in 5 years from now), budget 2.5G Realtek ethernet (at least they kept the Intel 1G too) and the beefier VRM's (which were already decent on the X470 board). It's not terrible but then again your Strix example is even worse - it won't be a similar price at all. The leaked prices suggest the Strix X570-F will go for US$300. That's nearly US$100 more than the X470 version was going for a year ago, likely over AU$150 more than the board it replaces, and yet I'm seeing even less general board improvements over the Strix X470-F equivalent than with the Crosshair comparison.
It seems as though manufactures are pushing costs up and up for the mid - high end with every generation, both on Intel and AMD. Meanwhile decent VRM and chipset heatsinks are MIA on the vast majority of mainstream boards. The Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS4 which I picked up soon after launch in 2008 for just AU$220 had tricked out finned copper heatsinks and a massive heatpipe that could handle a then power hungry quad core chip with a CPU/RAM/FSB overclock and a 22W TDP chipset without any additional chipset fans. Yet an AU$400+ board from 2019 with a 15W chipset needs a silly little fan because they continue to cheap out on heatsink design/materials. Now that is poor progress for the money! Sure the old board seems basic compared to most modern boards with their over spec'd VRM's, tiny blimps of fancy lighting and finally better onboard sound card (which still gets destroyed by most old add in sound cards), yet we've regressed on cooling the VRM/chipset pretty hard in return. As a long time hardware and silent PC enthusiast that regression just bums me out!
Laptops do have chipsets, they are on the same package as the CPU. I don't think this extra bandwidth will be coming to Ryzen laptops straight away so I'd agree that we need not worry about an additional 15W chipset on say a 35W laptop CPU. Hopefully they bring the power consumption down when the chipset is crafted on 7nm and running lower voltages.
All in all it does leave a sour taste in the mouth as a consumer. I remember when we went from PCIe 1.0 to PCIe 2.0, then to 3.0 the cost difference was generally tiny - as an example in 2012 I bought a PCIe 3.0 ready Z68 board for $0 more than the same board but with PCIe 2.0. Double the bandwidth to the GPU for $0 increase in cost...just needed the newer CPU of course. That was the best Z68/PCIe 3.0 ready ASUS ROG mATX board released, with a launch price of only US$180. It does appear they are taking advantage of the gullible consumer who are inevitably going to line up for the "latest and greatest", no matter the cost.
My take on this? Well I'm just about to revamp the CPU/mobo/RAM in my current PC. This could be my time to buy a reasonably priced and feature rich Strix X470-F board for AU$300 while I still can, drop in the 3700X when it's out, and enjoy a system that will still thrash out work/games - even with pissy old PCIe 3.0 After all I'm running the RTX 2070 and even the world's fastest gaming GPU (RTX 2080 Ti) loses just a couple of percent performance when going from PCIe 3.0 x16 to x8. That tiny regression in performance comes at the same throughput offered by PCIe 2.0 x16, which is just over a quarter of the throughput offered by PCIe 4.0 x16!
As a bonus I don't have to worry about the potential noise increase and eventual death of a hard to source chipset fan, which is a win for me at least
I wonder if we will see aftermarket passive chipset/vrm coolers. That Gigabyte heatpipe looks neato.
Not trying to quote out of context here but didn't want to put all of it in here. Taking that USD80, about USD20 of that goes into the X570 chipset cost increase which leaves the remaining USD60 to be split between AMD (margin) and the motherboard vendor (margin and PCB cost increase). Still a bit of a stretch as you way but not as bad as it looks at first sight I think.
Oh and don't forget GST .
X570 Taichi review which I thought might be interesting given the X470 Taichi was/is popular:
VRM: 12+2 (reduction from X470 Taichi which is 12+4) doubled but a better doubler
VRM cooling is sufficient for non-extreme overclocking
2 phase memory VRM (not doubled)
T topology for memory so should be good for overclocking 4 DIMM RAM configurations
Not that i disagree with the sentiments, but they price according to supply and demand.
Dont buy it on release day and the price will drop.
I'll buy ryzen 3000, but not before december at the earliest. By then the pricing will have settled a fair degree
When reasonably thought out and constructed criticism of the state of the market is interpreted as rage...but yes MUTMAN you just agreed with what I was saying. People will buy these at the higher prices for sure, as I said the gullible consumer will line up for this price increase (hint: most consumers are gullible). Doesn't mean I can't have a whinge about it I do hope you are right and the prices drop by the end of the year.
Not sure what B550 will bring to the table either. Maybe budget PCIe 4.0 to the GPU but I don't see it being worth the wait until next year. One thing I didn't mention was the potential benefits of SSD's running at 4.0 speeds. I guess that would be nice, but I highly doubt I'd notice the difference in general performance compared to my current drive. The drives will also cost more, but at the end of the day I do realize early adoption tech is just crap value for money as the market will often pay through the nose for often only negligible performance increases.
I think the real prime time platform upgrade worth the money over X470 will be the next socket and DDR5 etc - by then the GPU's we are all buying might make better use of more bandwidth with PCIe 4.0. That might be worth the $100+ increase to me, with faster RAM and GPUs too. While they are there I hope they can tone down the chipset TDP or just copy their own 10 year old heatsink designs...
i could have put 'snip' in there, but thats no fun
like some of those venerable x79 and x58 mobos that seem to still be existence...
will these x470/x570 boards go the distance long term?
The current belief is that B550 won't bring any extra PCIE 4.0 lanes to the table which means that there are only enough on the CPU to power a single PCIE x 16 slot for the GPU and a single M.2 SSD once you take out the 4 lanes for the chipset communication. I am also unsure if that will run at PCIE 4.0 between the AM4 socket and the B550 chipset. I have said it a few times in the thread so apologies if you have heard this already, AMD themselves are saying that if PCIE 4.0 isn't a thing for you then just get X470.
The desktop I am typing this on is still rocking an X79 Socket 2011 with a Sandy Bridge-E i7 3820 and my server is a dual socket C600 motherboard. The somewhat ironic thing is that I made the decision to sit here and forgo PCIE 3.0 support instead of upgrading .
Lol, imagine if AMD dominate intel for a couple more years.... I wonder what will happen to the price of it’s cpus
They would be stupidly priced like Intel CPUs are right now.
I'm excited for this release. I'm on an i5 6600K @ 4.3GHz and thinking of the 3900X (HT off). The 3950X looks nice too but a bit pricey, I think 12 cores will be heaps for me. I've previously been a big fan of Intel because of their single core performance, but the pricing -- particularly lately -- has been a bit over the top, and now it seems AMD has improved single core performance to a similar level of Intel's current line up (based on their slides).
Anyone know when we'll start seeing actual benchmarks?
7 July is the official embargo. There are a few floating around however they are engineering samples and/or AMD performed internal benchmarks.
Ahhh dang I was hoping we'd get to see them earlier! Thanks!
Looks like the Gigabyte X370 boards now have support
Yeah nice - my brother's AX370M DS3H is covered. He is still on a 1600 - so nice upgrade for him at some point.
i hope they do, and enjoy the money intel have. And hopefully by knowing the hard times they will put alot into R&D and keep staying on top...
So if I'm planning on buying a 3700 in a month or so, and the board supports the CPU, what features would I miss out on by buying a 4xx series motherboard over a newer 5xx series motherboard?