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Ryzen 4000 Series Discussion

Discussion in 'AMD x86 CPUs and chipsets' started by Skramit, Nov 7, 2019.

  1. RnR

    RnR Member

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    Take this with some salt though. TDP is not heat output, its the 'class' of cooling required. The expected 7+nm process to be used with Zen 3 is only 10% more power efficient than their current 7nm process. Arch redesigns could also save some watts. Not sure if 8core CCX will be a power saver over all?
     
  2. Luke212

    Luke212 Member

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  3. 335 GT

    335 GT Member

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    I saw an interview with Jim Keller a while back.
    He described his position as more a manager/overseer of the 'compute department' as RnR alluded to, I suspect he is not really hands on.
    That will be raja's job.
     
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  4. nope

    nope Member

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    raja is a incompetent fuckwhit
    im still pissed he bungled vega/r7 and
     
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  5. Phido

    Phido Member

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    Its not just the TDP that is dropping. The new process was optimized for power improvement.

    really these days power improvement is what is leading performance improvements, because in mobile and in servers, performance *IS* limited by power. TSMC looks like they nailed their targets.

    The downside of this is I don't expect significantly better clocks.. 5-10% max. But AMD seems to have found ways to significantly improve IPC both ALU and FPU. Most likely by adding complexity, afforded by the reduced feature size.
     
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  6. mAJORD

    mAJORD Member

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    I believe Keller is doing SoC level stuff at Intel?

    His contribution will definitely be missed at AMD I'd say, but he was more about changing the mindset, bring those two extremes of Bulldozer and Bobcat/Jaguar methodologies together and developing those Verification tools which are so crucial as mentioned above.. It allowed the Actual uArch team to be ambitious with Zen, and still get it out in time. That's the key in this industry - the ability to roll out these new Architectures quickly. The CPU game is a race against clock, And that's quite literally what AMD's weakness was , going as far back as K5 , with some exceptions, and thus 'wins' in between. but combined with being fabless, has now turned into their strength. Intel is always a moving target, but if it's moving slower than you, then it's just simple Maths isn't it as to where your competitive position will be a given point in time.


    Keller's challenge at Intel is that's just such a large, bloated company, very much rusted on to its way of doing things, and only recently relieved of it's idiot CEO (B.K) . It's NOT agile, as is clearly evident by their current situation - Their designs are tightly integrated with their Process, - hence they have no portability, no option to just Fab stuff at TSMC for example when their Next Node runs into problems
     
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  7. dirkmirk

    dirkmirk Member

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    Not sure its worth getting worked up on motherboards or spending dollars on the bastards:confused:.

    I have a basic I remember paying $102 for a Asrock B350M Pro back in 2017, its got 3000 memory.

    So for example I put in a Ryzen 3600 from the R3-1200 thats already in it, pretty pointless to overclock,

    So thinking to next 4000 series, whats the problem with a buying the cheaper board to support a mid range cpu? Overclocking is more or less pointless, what else do you need in a mobo?

    Single PCIE slot for graphics, 2 slots for dual channel ram, some bios tweaking for memory, what else:confused:

    Starting to think an A320 board would have done the job:lol:!
     
  8. mAJORD

    mAJORD Member

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    Really depends on the Memory controller, CCX and IF changes - they're the limitations in Zen 2 . Remove those limitations right now, and Intel would be in trouble.

    If they come out of the gate with an 8 core CCX, and / or can drop those inter CCX and die latencies right down - then Intel are in trouble Re' their last foothold (gaming performance) I think.
     
  9. asho444

    asho444 Member

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    Hmm wonder if their were able to shrink th I/O die aswell
     
  10. RnR

    RnR Member

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    He could be now. Plenty of stuff to work on in a company the size of Intel.
     
  11. Phido

    Phido Member

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    Global foundries will most likely move to 12nm+ in 2021.

    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/globalfoundries-12lp-plus-node-process-12nm,40478.html

    I would expect Ryzen 5000 on AM5 to support DDR5 and have IO on a 12+ node.

    ITX is the future IMO.. You can put 64+GB RAM, 2 x SSD NVME, 16 core processor and Wifi6, 5Gbps Ethernet Run the fastest memory, and still have SATA SSD's, and a full sized 2080ti
    ATX should die. Its too big, no one is putting 4 or 5 cards into a PC these days. Matx is more than enough for everyone and most people could happily live with MITX.
     
  12. SnooP-WiggleS

    SnooP-WiggleS Member

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    I doubt it in that itx boards always need high quality more layer pcbs to squeeze everything in around the cpu so they'll always be more expensive the an atx/matx. That said I agree with matx I can see full size atx boards getting less and less common and matx being the 90% of boards on the market.

    Every leak I've read has said zen3 is an 8 core ccx, seems highly likely.
     
  13. Ratzz

    Ratzz Member

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    I'd agree that mATX is a better option than ATX, but board manufacturers don't seem to agree, at least not in the AMD market.

    There are few (if any?) AMD X boards available in mATX. Hence if you need any more than a single PCIE slot you are forced to buy ATX. ITX boards are great in many ways, memory overclocking comes immediately to mind, but the lack of that single extra PCIE slot rules one out for me because I use a sound card.

    Even the DTX boards with the slightly wider form factor and an additional x1 slot don't suit me, as a thick GPU such as my (ordered today as the horrific MSI Mech OC I bought was refunded today :thumbup:) Nitro + 5700XT would obscure the extra slot, and my sound card means I need an extra slot.

    Even with a slimmer GPU on such a board my sound card would be too close to the GPU , making both GPU and sound card overheat.

    Until the board manufacturers get behind high end mATX in a meaningful way, which they have never really done for AMD, I'm stuck with ATX.

    I used to have a GENE when I was on Intel, but there is no AMD equivalent that I am aware of.

    If a decent X mATX board comes out before Zen 3 CPU's drop, I'll be buying one, to go with the Zen 3 12 or 16 core I'll be buying, otherwise I am stuck with ATX.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
  14. Phido

    Phido Member

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    I find the DTX boards a waste, it would be nice to have 4 x ram or/and 2 pci-e slots, but it doesn't happen.

    Matx should be pretty much ideal for everyone, if they made decent boards in this form factor. There are plenty in intels, including high performance platforms.

    It looks like many b550 ITX boards will get integrated 2.5Gb Ethernet, so AMD is going upscale. I don't think any x570 boards have integrated Ethernet faster than 1Gbps.

    ASrock did make a matx threadripper board.
    https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/asrock-x399m-taichi-motherboard,5898.html
     
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  15. Ratzz

    Ratzz Member

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    The LAN would make no difference for me as every PC in the house is on wireless. Never really been a factor for me, as even with a reliable 100/40 NBN connection I wouldn't be able to max out a 1G LAN connection anyway.

    Even my wireless has no problem handling the full potential of my 100/40 internet - though I have the girls running on 2.4GHz and my own machine is on 5GHz because if I share the 5GHz with one of them we both run at reduced speed if we are both downloading at once. Provided I keep the 5GHz band just for me though, it can cope with anything the NBN can throw at it.

    That's the downside of a low end router I guess. No doubt if we ever get faster NBN in our area I'll have to start looking at high end wireless or LAN solutions, but as it stands I have no use for faster LAN.

    I've seen that TR4 mATX board before, that's a crazy beast alright :D. Has me beat why they can make an mATX board for TR4 but not for X470 or X570.

    All I want is a single extra PCIE slot that isn't so close to my GPU that I can't use it. Shouldn't be that big of an ask surely? In the meantime, just because I have a sound card I want to use, I'm stuck with ATX.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
  16. Phido

    Phido Member

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    The PC's I build now I tend to keep for about 5-10 years.

    I am looking for features will which really help keep them from being obsolete.
    WIFI is fine for internet, but ideally I would want my own fast NAS in the next 5 years.

    Hopefully we see some better b550 matx boards.
     
  17. adamsleath

    adamsleath Member

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  18. nope

    nope Member

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    still a month away... come amd
     
  19. RnR

    RnR Member

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  20. MUTMAN

    MUTMAN Member

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    colour me super curious about the 4700G/E ...
    they look to be workhorses for productivity
     

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