Ryzen 5000 Series Discussion

Discussion in 'AMD x86 CPUs and chipsets' started by Skramit, Nov 7, 2019.

  1. Multiplexer

    Multiplexer Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2002
    Messages:
    2,126
    Location:
    Home
    I think it is time to replace my Ivy bridge, which model is best for watching youtube?

    With all seriousness, I am more interested in performance gain over my current Ivy Bridge. I have not upgraded for so long because the Ivy Bridge serve me fine and I dont want it going to landfill. At the same time I want a new CPU + motherboard + Graphic Card for Cyberpunk 2077.

    5900X or 5950X, higher base clock or higher turbo clock?

    Not even sure will I have time to play game with work and 2 small children.
     
    Malakai likes this.
  2. wintermute000

    wintermute000 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Messages:
    2,540
    For gaming there's not really any reason to go > 8 cores really.
     
    MUTMAN likes this.
  3. darkbastard

    darkbastard Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Messages:
    914
    Location:
    Labrador 4215
    I just finished watching Ian Cuttress on Tech Tech Potato and he (after speaking to Mark Papermaster) maintains that the Zen 3 cpu's are a new design from the ground up.

    He's no the best orator but he does have very good knowledge and contacts

     
    RnR and MUTMAN like this.
  4. Ratzz

    Ratzz Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2013
    Messages:
    10,318
    Location:
    Cheltenham East 3192
    Sounds great. I would probably hold on just a little longer and see which Big Navi the lovely Lisa was demonstrating in her slides. I'm probably a little AMD biased these days, since the first Zen hit the shelves, but not when it comes to bang for buck.

    I consider myself brand agnostic. I buy the best I can within the budget I've set, and AMD has been doing that hands down since Zen came out. The RX GPU's have also impressed in recent years from a bang for buck perspective, unlike Vega which was overpriced for what it was (not to mention rather power hungry), and Radeon VII, which was a productivity card operating in a market it didn't really belong in, wearing a cheaper gaudy gaming shirt instead of its usual Radeon Instinct business suit. The high end is where AMD have been lacking in the GPU space, the lower/mid range (RX) have been pretty competitive IMO.

    Prior to that, I was an Intel diehard with no love for AMD at all, at least not since the AMD heyday of 2500+ in the early few years of this century. AMD lost their way for a long time, but their star is now rising again, big time. When I finally moved in with my long time love (a 40 year courtship :lol:) in Vic about 6 years ago, the first thing I did was sell her AMD computer and replace it with a 'proper' computer, an Intel. I couldn't bear to listen to, and trying to remedy, the many complaints she had about her AMD E-350 small desktop that some salesperson at Hardly Normal had sucked her into buying.

    The original Zen, even with all its failings, was good enough to change my position on AMD once more, just 3 short years later. Evie was gobsmacked, she'd heard me say nothing good about AMD, ever, and suddenly I was getting out of my 7700K in favour of an AMD Ryzen.

    I suspect there is a Bigger Navi we haven't seen yet, I'd be waiting until we see the whole product stack before choosing the 3080 over Navi. Keep in mind too that AMD have their own versions of DLSS and RT, so if those are your primary reason for choosing one over the other, I'd be waiting until the usual suspects start posting proper reviews, then make your decision based on all the info instead of just a mix of info and hype.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
  5. chook

    chook Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Messages:
    3,789
    Of the SKU's announced in the Zen 3 line-up the 5600X will do what you want there. If you are happy to get Zen 2 then a 3600 will do it for you.
     
  6. MUTMAN

    MUTMAN Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    9,230
    Location:
    4109
    b550 still sees the 24 lanes

    upload_2020-10-11_19-2-47.png
     
    chook, Ratzz and RnR like this.
  7. Multiplexer

    Multiplexer Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2002
    Messages:
    2,126
    Location:
    Home
    I appreciate the recommendation the lower spec model will do fine for gaming, but since I hold out my current Ivy Bridge for 8 years, I might as well get a higher model that may have longevity and hold out another 8 years.

    Another thing I would like to know is what is the likelihood the Zen 3 + ASUS ROG X570 ROG CROSSHAIR VIII DARK HERO will will work with ESXi 7.0? It is unlikely anyone will know but maybe base on last year Zen 2 we maybe able to see a trend?
     
  8. RnR

    RnR Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2002
    Messages:
    16,678
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Then go for an 8 core. Graphics engines will be optimised for 6-8 cores for many years going forward purely because both next-gen consoles will have 8 cores.
     
    Multiplexer likes this.
  9. chook

    chook Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Messages:
    3,789
    Papermaster mentioned in the presentation that the integer and floating point execution units are wider which feeds into deceased latency due to an increase in LOAD and STORE operations.
    Yeah, lanes 21 - 24 (arbitrary allocation) are used purely for the communication between the CPU and chipset, they aren't actually used by the chipset to enable a second M2 slot. The lanes that go to the second M2 slot come from the ten PCIe 3.0 lanes provided by the B550 chipset itself.

    There is a lot of time spent examining diagrams and then drawing lines all over the place to get this stuff right in your head I have to admit because it can be very confusing at first.
    I have mentioned a couple of times in the thread that I went from an i7 3820 purchased in 2013 to a 3900X. If it hadn't been on sale I would have just gone for the 3700X or 3800X and was happily expecting that to last me the same amount of time. I didn't really need to upgrade but wanted to after seven years. Unless you are actually planning to put a gaming VM on top of the hypervisor and pass the GPU through using IOMMU then I don't see any real benefit to getting a higher SKU. If you are going to do that then you need to decide how many cores you want to give the gaming VM and how many other cores you need.

    ESXi won't be certified for any desktop products. Sure, they often work but if you are after certification then that won't happen. I run ESXi on my server (home/work combo) and use actual server hardware so I can be sure that it will work. You generally don't need to go to that level but if it matters to you then at least you know. I would be stunned and amazed if ESXi didn't work on an X570/B550 board with a Zen 3 based CPU. One thing you might want to consider with ESXi is whether you need ECC RAM. I did for mine which was also one of the reasons I went with actual server hardware.

    As for which SKU you should get for a hypervisor, I would look at your planned workload for the system, figure out how many vCPU's are going to be required and calculate backwards from there. It is quite possible that you will want the 5950X if you need that many vCPU's. Remember that there are a lot of specifications around sockets and cores for ESXi if you are seeking to maximise performance and with a single socket desktop board then you should only have single socket VM's running on it. That is a conversation that is probably best had in the virtualisation thread:

    https://forums.overclockers.com.au/threads/the-enormous-virtualisation-help-thread.958515/
     
    MUTMAN and Multiplexer like this.
  10. Ratzz

    Ratzz Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2013
    Messages:
    10,318
    Location:
    Cheltenham East 3192
    Yeah but you can have just (pick one)
    • one PCIE4 (x4, full speed) NVME M.2 or
    • a pair of PCIE4 (x2, gimped) NVME M.2's, or
    • one PCIE4 (x2, gimped) NVME M.2 and a pair of SATA M.2's
    via the CPU.

    With 4 lanes handling communication with the chipset, and 16 lanes handling the GPU, you only have 4 PCIE4 lanes spare to run your M.2's. PCIE4 (x2) is no better than PCIE3 (x4).

    Without the extra 4 lanes from the chipset, you can't have two full speed PCIE4 (x4) M.2's. The CPU is using 4 lanes to communicate with the chipset, but those 4 lanes aren't providing PCIE4 past the PCIE3 chipset.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
    MUTMAN likes this.
  11. chook

    chook Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Messages:
    3,789
    I think what MUTMAN was saying is that all of the PCIe 4.0 lanes are not connected to the chipset in any way. When I read your post at first I interpreted it as you saying the 20 lanes are run through the chipset but then I sat back and considered it and realised it was just people saying the same thing in different ways. He might have made the same interpretation that I initially did.
     
    MUTMAN likes this.
  12. Ratzz

    Ratzz Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2013
    Messages:
    10,318
    Location:
    Cheltenham East 3192
    Yeah I thought that might be the case. Block diagrams aren't necessarily the best way to communicate this shit (nor are words :lol:), especially when you throw in a range of if's and or's...

    Only 4 lanes go to the chipset, but they are for communication between chipset and CPU, not available for other stuff.
     
    MUTMAN likes this.
  13. RnR

    RnR Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2002
    Messages:
    16,678
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Ok I'm not so sure any more.

    Going from N7 to N7p gives you either +7% speed or 10% lower power. And yet we are seeing something weird.

    3600XT -> 5600X
    Boost: +100Hz
    Base: -100Hz
    TDP: -30%

    3800XT -> 5800X
    Boost: +100Hz
    Base: -100Hz
    TDP: same

    I'm not really sure how to explain this in the context of using N7p. The drop in TDP for the 5600X looks crazy good, but then why not any drops in TDP for any of the others? Not even to 95W? And the same for the speeds - a drop in the base clock speed while keeping the same base TDP? If AMD went with N7p and selected the speed option, we should be seeing +200MHz for the 5600X while being able to keep the same TDP as before.

    I'm confused :confused:

    But what if AMD targets an overall performance increase of 10-20% for most of their releases? So they figured that their hard work on IPC and cache for Zen 3 got them there, so any benefits from moving to N7p could be saved to be used for a later date to help hitting their performance targets. In other words, AMD may not be using an advanced N7 TSMC process. They may still be using TSMC's plain jane N7.

    Thoughts?

    Edit:
    upload_2020-10-12_8-45-18.png

    Clear as mud...
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2020
  14. sTeeLzor

    sTeeLzor Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    2,745
    Hmmm. I was tempted to go 3900X to 5900X but I have a B450. I really dont like changing motherboards as its basically rebuilding your PC.

    Might just have to leave it. There are worse things than running 3900X
     
    MUTMAN likes this.
  15. neRok

    neRok Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2006
    Messages:
    4,032
    Location:
    Perth NOR
    Bigger number is better ;)

    I expect the difference would be minimal, even compared to the B450. The rest of the system comes into question though, particularly the amount of storage and/or expansion cards. If you have lots of things using the PCI-E lanes, you will want as many fast lanes as possible.

    And if you're looking to squeeze out every bit of performance, going from normal to fast ram can give some decent increases. So don't forget that!
     
  16. RnR

    RnR Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2002
    Messages:
    16,678
    Location:
    Brisbane
    You should be able to use your B450 with a 5000 Ryzen. Just next year rather than next month.
     
    sTeeLzor likes this.
  17. trevor68

    trevor68 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Messages:
    4,387
    Location:
    Canberra
    I was building a gaming rig, had decided on B550 plus ryzen 5 3600. I think I will just hit pause until January now, wait and see how prices shake out, and whats going on with Vid Cards as well.
     
    MUTMAN, Multiplexer and Ratzz like this.
  18. shirl

    shirl Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    272
    Location:
    sydney
    thanks for the reply ill go read and research some more and ask more questions at a later date,,,peace..
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2020
  19. 335 GT

    335 GT Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2019
    Messages:
    1,136
    Location:
    W.A.
    Totally different core.

    Wider, reworked cache.
    AMD aren't saying much yet but I think those cores have had a total rebuild.
     
  20. dirtyd

    dirtyd Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2006
    Messages:
    4,099
    Location:
    Melbs
    Sounds like design optimisation from 3000 series, 7% doesn't sound unreasonable. I guess couldn't buy enough capacity on n7p? Bit of competition these days... Nvidia, Apple, Intel!
     

Share This Page

Advertisement: