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Second hand AMD cards...

Discussion in 'Video Cards & Monitors' started by zeggie, Jun 12, 2014.

  1. zeggie

    zeggie Member

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    Am I right to think that the reason there are heaps for sale second hand (including here on OCAU) is that they are all ex-bitcoin mining cards?
     
  2. renren

    renren Member

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    Yes.







    blahblah
     
  3. the3coopers

    the3coopers Member

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    Which means that they have been thoroughly tested

    But in seriousness, what harm could mining do to a video card? Aren't they just doing what they were designed to do?

    Or us the concern that they've been at 100% continuously? Or the continuous GPU heat?
     
  4. SuzyCreamcheese

    SuzyCreamcheese Member

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    Electromigration of the GPU and RAM potentially, and perhaps any fans on them wearing over time.

    Given that most of these cards are around a year old at most, suggests that they wouldn't have suffered too much damage.

    I'd be more weary of something bought where the Heatsink has been taken off and refitted or replaced though frankly.
     
  5. dr_deathy

    dr_deathy Member

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    I still have single slot 8800GT's folding 24/7 and they have crappy cores that fell to bits at the first sign of work. IMHO AMD cores are tougher then nvidias as well.
     
  6. GoneFishin22

    GoneFishin22 Member

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    Your gettting the reassurance you need but they have also been OC, overvolted and or tweaked being "tested and used" arguably beyond design constructs - they were designed for "Video Rendering" but have been used in another form entirely - "maths co-processing" and IMHO they have been flogged.

    It would be like leaving a car on a dyno tuner 24/7 - the car was not designed to be run like that but it is stressing the vehicle to optimise the performance outcomes. That is what bitcoin miners were trying to do!

    Unless you know the card seller has "technical expertise" at OC and overvoltilng the cards within the technically defined tolerances they are more than likely "degraded" and will fail! I bought one a while ago and it started BSOD all the time after about 2 months and is now a paperwieght.

    Buyer beware!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2014
  7. richan3185

    richan3185 Member

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    More important is the quality of the bumps used on the chip. 'bumpgate' was when nvidia used substandard bumps and out killed chips.

    I don't think there will be much of an issue. AMD cards are typically built to go way above their rated power. The same chips spend years at full power in hpc installs.
     
  8. richan3185

    richan3185 Member

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    Rubbish. GCN was specifically designed to be strong at integer maths, hence it's strength in crypto.

    Buyer always beware buying second hand.
     
  9. wolfie870

    wolfie870 Member

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    any reason why there's such a massive influx of these cards at the moment? doge/lite coin or something get too hard?
     
  10. NSanity

    NSanity Member

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    Probably the natural increase in time needed to mine a unit becoming greater than the cost of the power required to mine it.

    With regards to buying cards that have been pegged at 100% gpu for their lives - bear in mind that the design for "consumer" cards is for 2-3 hours a day - tops - of "full load" use. They've copped more than that.

    Electronics aren't exactly like mechanical things - and aren't subject to "normal" wear and tear like that - but i'd still keep it in mind.

    Certainly in the Pro-CAD field, when i see gaming cpus used, we see a higher failure rate than I do from general gaming use (gpu's being worked all day vs a few hours a night) - but this is easily offset by the fact that quadro's are 4-6x the price.
     
  11. starkers92

    starkers92 Member

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    Typically most (if not all) litecoin miners undervolted their cards to get power usage down..

    As long as it still has warranty.... cheap cards!
     
  12. GoneFishin22

    GoneFishin22 Member

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    yadayadayada......you hope they have warranty. My analogy of a car on a Dyno Tuner still stands......the cards have been tweaked for performance output (even if undervolted) but then run at 100% GPU usage 24/7.

    You will be hard pressed to name anything "manufactured" that was designed with that principle and "not degrade".........I can think of 1-2!
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2014
  13. kix

    kix Member

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    Studies have shown that an item is less likely to break if left on for longer
    periods of time as opposed to turning it off and on a few times a day.
    I don't have any links to support this as I couldn't give a shit.

    As long as the card has warranty, there is no problem.
     
  14. datfreak

    datfreak Member

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    Any secondhand "thing" has risk - PC parts probably more then most as they are able to be tinkered with.

    I bought a exmining 290 from a ocau member for $290 - which is working perfectly, and now quite under a $20 waterblock.
    Very happy with this upgrade - has to be one of the best $ to performance ratio upgrades that Ive ever spent on any pc.
     
  15. bigfellla

    bigfellla Member

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    Yeah you don't have any links because its a myth. Used commonly in the IT industry because they couldn't be fucked with the effort of enabling network wide profiles for energy efficiency. This myth has been around forever. Simply hasn't got any evidence to support it beyond conjecture or hearsay.

    Secondly, warranties are not always transferable, nor valid, particularly if they've had bios flashes, or other voltage mods done, screws removed where the locktite is no longer bonded etc etc.
     
  16. shredder

    shredder Member

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    Starkers92 mentioned this above, but it's worth restating so there is no confusion.

    Miners, when tweaking their mining cards, want to keep temperatures, power usage, and card stress to a minimum - hence they undervolt. One would be a fool to overvolt a card under heavy load. It simply isn't done by anyone with half a clue.

    Miners also benefit by create good cooling and airflow environments for their cards to run in. A good miner monitors their cards vital signs 24/7 like a doctor monitors a patient, and cares for them so they last as long as possible and with minimal stress under the circumstances.

    The more relevant and defining variable is the skills and habits of the individual involved. Not simply the mining.

    A lot of ex-mining cards are, for all intents and purposes, perfectly fine.

    Cards bought from no-clues that have screwed their card in one way or another (completely unrelated to mining) - be it overclocking, modding, poor handling practice, poor operating environments, etc - are the bigger danger in the second hand market.

    And that's been the case for as long as video cards have been around - long before mining existed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2014
  17. Kaine[zof]

    Kaine[zof] Member

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    In most cases with consumer electronics, the biggest general use fatigue factor is the heat/cool cycle of being repeatedly turned on and off. Naturally as they heat up and cool down all of the different materials involved expand and contract at various rates.

    The analogy of a car on a dyno 24/7 is incorrect. The cooling systems in a car are designed to function with increased airflow through the radiator as the engine is worked harder, providing better cooling when the engine is producing more heat. The fallback is having fans on the radiator as a backup (that won't last forever, and is never as good as proper airflow from the vehicle moving). Ask anyone that's spent time on an air cooled motorbike what can happen on a hot day in traffic. (I'll give you a hint: you learn to turn off the engine when you're at the lights)

    A better analogy would be comparing 100% duty cycle video processors to a car that is driven down an endless highway. A bad driver will be redlining (overvolting/clocking) constantly, and a smart driver will sit at a speed that gets them optimum fuel efficiency (undervolting).

    And whoever suggested that doing FPU calculations is somehow different from, and therefore more likely to 'damage' the card than processing video clearly has no idea how they work and should just excuse themselves from the entire conversation.
     
  18. bigfellla

    bigfellla Member

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    Yep as shown in this paper http://seelab.ucsd.edu/papers/tsimunic_dsd04.pdf
     

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