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Should the sale of raw milk remain illegal?

Discussion in 'Geek Food' started by damn duck, Aug 16, 2013.

  1. mshagg

    mshagg Politburo

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    It seems difficult to see how it would work on a commercial scale. A farmer/middleman/retailer cant waive their product liability, there's a duty of care to sell a safe product.

    Im sure it can be worked around, though.
     
  2. hosh0

    hosh0 Member

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    I'll just leave this here
     
  3. bennyg

    bennyg Member

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    Raw milk is one of those things where the law exists but is not enforced unless someone rocks the boat. If someone put an ad on TV saying they sold bath milk and you could drink it I bet theyd be shut down ASAP. Unlike the US where SWAT teams raid health food shops on the suspicion they sell raw milk. Apparently. Hippies do tend to overhype stories on the net.

    Those who inform themselves of the risks and do it properly dont care what randoms think on an internet forum. But if everybody expected to be able to have it sit in a vat for days, cartons and trucks and warehouses for weeks, and fridges for a week after opening... those people would be dropping dead and infesting EM wards with preventible self-inflicted infection.

    Public health and food policy is made for the lowest common denominator. What is fine for the informed conscientious individual is unfortunately deadly for plebs who do it coz its trendy so is "outlawed"
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2013
  4. The Wolf

    The Wolf Member

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    Low bacteria.... not NO bacteria. You know bacteria is alive right? And it metabolises lactose? So it continues to increase the quantity unless you find a way of reducing the milk to such a level that the time it takes for bacteria to reach a dangerous level is greater than the time it takes for distribution and consumption. It will still reach that level... That is why there is a 'use by' date, and it is illegal to sell.
    Low bacteria is so the milk does not spoil while awaiting processing.

    The problem is not in production, it is in distribution.
    Again, the problem is in the time it takes to distribute. Bacteria multiply.

    Most certainly it should. You are a commercial enterprise. You have a duty to food safety laws. If someone selling to their neigbour has no responsibility, why should Coles or McDonnalds or garibaldi?

    So you take bacterial cultures of all food, before you consume it, in accodance with applicable GMP laws? No? Guess what, you are said 'lowest common denominator' And when you turn up to the emergency room after a night of eating out, complaining you can't see and your organs are failing, It's 'old mugsy' here who has to support you for life, paying for transplants and dialysis
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2013
  5. Linkin

    Linkin Member

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    Solution... don't send raw/unprocessed milk from one side of the country to another? Distribute/Sell locally only?
     
  6. mrs dan77

    mrs dan77 Member

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    The 'modern' method of getting around these laws is in a co-op. Around 8 individuals/families living in close quarters will co-own a cow together, and are entitled to shares in the milk. This is a simplistic, but legal, way around the law.

    I grew up drinking raw goat's milk. It was sold to us as 'unpasteurised pet milk only', directly from the owner.

    I like the idea of co-owning a cow for the sake of drinking raw milk. I like to eat and drink food that has gone under as little processing as possible, but understand the need for pasteurisation when it comes to mass-production.
    The milk I drink is unhomogenised, locally-produced and delicious. I'm no hippy who feels my freedoms are being violated, and that is good enough for me unless I end up on the land. Raw milk cheeses though? It's just plain unfair that they are illegal!
     
  7. f3n1x

    f3n1x Member

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    From a link earlier in the thread, 13 people became ill with salmonellosis linked to eating a raw Mexican-style cheese in Minneapolis, Minnesota, US.

    Consuming raw milk is a gamble, i don't mind anyone gambling, but don't expect the rest of us to rush to your aid if you lose the bet.

    I'd be perfectly happy with people drinking this stuff as long as they register themselves and sign something indemnifying the public health care system from the cost of treatment for any illness resulting from said consumption.
     
  8. rush

    rush Member

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    Why not just go eat some fugu?
     
  9. mrs dan77

    mrs dan77 Member

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    There are some raw-milk cheeses that are considered perfectly safe to consume. The only reason that they are disallowed is for convenience - it's a much easier process to make illegal all raw milk, and not just that milk which will not be further processed.

    Consuming raw eggs (or even runny egg yolks) is also a minor gamble. It's a wonder that the Public Health system isn't up in arms about this.
    That being said, I am happy with the mass pasteurisation of milk. I would just also like the option of drinking very fresh raw milk under certain circumstances - if I was able to make an informed choice about the origins of that milk. Or if there were some very strict guidelines about the processing and consumption of raw milk. FWIW, I have no intention of ever actually consuming raw milk, unless I actually can see the cow that it has come from - indicating I am close enough to the producer to be able to make an informed decision about the storage conditions, the health of the cow and so forth.
     
  10. Daft_Munt

    Daft_Munt Member

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    Not 100% true, there is one company in Australia that makes one cheese from raw cows milk. As for food poisoning lets ban pizzas and various other foodstuff eg oysters, mussels, smoked salmon, salamis ... Seriously food hygiene isnt that hard, but common sense inst that common these days. Personally I can see the need for pasteurisation of milk in the modern food chain.
     
  11. ipex

    ipex Member

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    in my younger days when i first moved out i was living in a house on the back of a farm on condition that i would help with milking , every morning i would get fresh milk to take home for breakfast , coffee etc

    now i can still go down to the local farmer and get milk straight from the farm ,

    hasn't killed me yet
     
  12. The Wolf

    The Wolf Member

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    No need. Just like there is no need to ban milk. We just impliment strict procedural and legal requirements to ensure their safety. Like pasturisation for milk and nitrate treatment for salami
     
  13. round

    round (Banned or Deleted)

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    why not a sticker like what they put on smokes, and let the people make their own mind up.

    you can buy raw milk today, but its labeled not safe for consumption & costs about 4 times as much as it should.
    http://cleopatrasbathmilk.com/

    there is nothing unsafe with raw milk or other raw dairy.
     
  14. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic News Monkey

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    I'm part of the cow share program here in south australia and get 3 litres of milk from my two ladies every week.

    I love the stuff and appreciate the whole, non-processed aspect to it. I have been on the program for about 9 months now and will continue to until the authorities shut it down. They are in the process of trying to shut it down, which is just bullshit really. I think it's time for society to get with the times. Modern day nutritional disorders are a consequence of the over processing of foods. Time to get back to basics.


    Click to view full size!
     
  15. PaPaGeorGeo

    PaPaGeorGeo Member

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    Yeah I saw it on gourmet farmer, a Tasmanian guy has the only license/permitin Australia.
     
  16. The MWNN

    The MWNN Member

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    This, I was a member of a herd share program in Queensland that gave me legal access to high quality, creamy unpasteurised Jersey milk from a local producer. Never made me sick, and just to make a point you could happy let it sour in a bowl on your kitchen bench and get lovely thick tasty sour cream from it. That said it would never work for supermarket carton milk but making it illegal is just dumb.

    I often read this kind of thing on OCAU and it makes me sad. If you use this way of thinking anytime people require health treatment for anything that isn't completely accidental then they should have to foot the bill. I think most people can agree that thats not the way they want people to be treated in our country. Fact is you are just as likely to get sick from pastuerised dairy anyway.

    Living in NL I buy my milk direct from the farmer, he has a large refrigerated machine he puts a big urn into every morning and you simply put you bottle under the nozzle and insert coins into the machine. Nobody gets sick, this kind of thing is common throughout Europe.
     
  17. bennyg

    bennyg Member

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    Dont be :sad: just :rolleyes:
     
  18. security

    security Member

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    Same old

    The very likely opportunity for greedy unscrupulous bastards who are willing to make a sub standard and potentially lethal product available for profit warrants the procedure of pasteurization.
    Let alone if you ever milked a herd, u want it cooked.
    mastitis etc has to be isolated, not so easy in a larger herd..
    Smell a milking shed, pasteurize the milk.:D
     
  19. Daft_Munt

    Daft_Munt Member

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    You still get problems with Salami and smoke foods. It is one reason why so many producers/manufacturers send off sample to food labs for independent testing. Edit: my comment about pizza is because I have had food poisoning 3 times from it.

    Bruny Island cheese is the company that makes one raw milk cheese. Funny thing is Europe have been making raw milk cheese and nitrate free meats for centuries but they are small scale.
     
  20. mrs dan77

    mrs dan77 Member

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    Thanks for the name of the producer. Might have to check them out.

    Europe is exactly the reason why raw milk cheeses and other products can work if done well. I understand the blanket law, particularly for mass producers, but a small-scale primary producer on-selling to consumers directly with very quick turnover times is a lot less risky. I would be happy for this to be possible - if regulated well.
     

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