Spintel unlimited is not unlimited

Discussion in 'Networking, Telephony & Internet' started by Chamelion, Jun 23, 2012.

  1. caspian

    caspian Member

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    I really can't recall to any degree of accuracy that wouldn't just be me conveniently supporting my own story.

    my point was that there was no limitations stated in terms of allowed distances, just that it was for personal use only. I don't think it matters too much whether it contained the demon word "unlimited" or not.

    we could substitute in other terms like "all you can eat" or "all inclusive" or "nothing else to pay" but it doesn't change the concept that as soon as you start screwing the service provider out of a profit for providing you with a service, they're not going to tolerate it. it doesn't matter if that is car usage, ISP supplied data, salad stacking or the uni students who used to go to the old pizza hut all-you-can-eat buffet and walk out with a backpack full of tupperware containers stuffed with all the pizza they could carry.


    an older ISP of mine used to meter uploads - if you bought an allowance of xGB down, you also got xGB up. their RADIUS metering was busted in Victoria, so it never measured upstream properly. people had contests seeing how much they could seed each month.

    any of those people who thought they were getting away with it undetected were deluding themselves. they were just lucky enough that it would have cost the ISP more to fix the issue than what it was costing them. the instant it did it would have been fixed, and no doubt a proportion of the former freeloaders would have immediately suffered severe entitlement syndrome, too.
     
  2. Madengineer

    Madengineer Member

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    Haven't read all this thread..Cause there is a lot to read :D

    But if they don't want you using enormous amounts of usage, why then do they offer unlimited, and not just offer you the max amount they will allow you to download?

    Seems rather stupid...Unless it's an advertising ploy. Advertise a service that you're not willing to supply, then renig when the person uses more than your 'reasonable amount'.

    Just on this topic as well...TPG have nothing in their T&Cs that specifically mention 'acceptable usage' regarding data.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2013
  3. caspian

    caspian Member

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    TPG have a very simple mechanism for dealing with their unlimited data usage accounts. they let their network congests and don't care less.

    and for the prices their customers pay for it, if they hold higher expectations then they are not reasonable in doing so.

    there is no such thing as a free lunch.
     
  4. lennyc

    lennyc Member

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    You describe a good service above. Where it comes unstuck is ISP's secretly deciding what the limits are. They package a product as suitable for heavy users and then refuse to service heavy users.

    Bad analogy as an internet connection idling or going flat chat does not display the same deterioration as a car does (Tyres, brakes, suspension, fuel usage etc.).

    A better analogy would be eating at a high class restaurant which because they happen to be busy, serve you desert and tell you to leave immediately as the time they have allotted for you has expired.
     
  5. caspian

    caspian Member

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    I'm not getting into the analogy war where we pick the eyeballs out of something as a distraction from ignoring the fundamental meaning of the parallel.

    the point remains very simply that the industry is not going to be bent over by a few people who think they have the right to rape their service over a narrow dictionary definition of the word. the ISP is either going to protect themselves with an AUP that allows them to deal with situations as they arise, or walk away from the "unlimited" market altogether due to the protectionist outlook of the ACMA.

    if you feel otherwise, feel free to start your own ISP and structure your business model however you like.
     
  6. Anteros

    Anteros Member

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    A narrow dictionary definition? They could have chose any number of other ways to market it. They could have just stuck with 500gb. They are the ones who choose to use the term unlimited. It's simple, if you need a limit on your service to provide it to people at the price you are asking, do not call it unlimited.
     
  7. lennyc

    lennyc Member

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    You get what you pay for, and always make sure you get what you pay for.

    An AUP that does not quantify what use is acceptable, is not acceptable.
     
  8. SupremeMoFo

    SupremeMoFo Member

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    Serve you a desert? Why would you go to a restaurant and buy some arid land?

    Caspian's analogy is still a good one because the employee had totally unreasonable expectations of what the service offered was to be used for. As has been said many times, tell me exactly how you can sustain 1TB+ usage per month and claim it's all legitimate use (bearing in mind the T&Cs for these services don't allow you to use it for illegal activities!) and then I'll grant that you have a fair point and you're not totally full of shit.
     
  9. caspian

    caspian Member

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    on top of that, tell me how a reputable ISP wants $150 for 1TB, whereas the fly-by-nighters want $70. yeah, that's sustainable.

    if anyone has expectations they've actually found their own personal gold mine of data usage, they are dreaming. such prices can only be sustained through AUPs, stuff like blocking ports/DPI deprioritisation of P2P data, and simply not giving a rat's backside and letting your network congest to the detriment of all, leeches and non-leeches.

    decent ISPs don't pull those sort of stunts (because they're got business ethics about delivering a decent product), but then again those ISPs don't offer "unlimited" plans anymore either.

    it's always been the 1% of extremists ruining it for everyone else.
     
  10. iSTELTHYi

    iSTELTHYi Member

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    Got a list of decent ISPs?
     
  11. lennyc

    lennyc Member

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    In Caspians analogy the terms of the lease are in the contract regarding panel damage, millage, maintenance etc. The employer failed to bring these limitations to the employees attention. Spintel failed to disclose what the new limit on the OP's changed plan is. The old plan was a specific quantity of 500GB. The new plan is "Unlimited".

    In my analogy I substituted time for data. Data does not wear out the connection just as time sitting in a restaurant does not wear out the restaurant.

    My family consists of six adults some on shift-work so the internet is on practically 24/7. 1TB/6=166GB each. Define the limits so that I can adhere to them. My current plan is unlimited from 8pm. to 8am. and 40GB during the peak.

    ISP's should not arbitrarily move the goal posts inflicting punitive consequences on their customers. If limits are changed by an ISP the customer should be given advanced notice to comply, change or terminate the service. Business who don't know how to price and market a product effectively will always blame the customers for driving them broke. Too low a price- lots of customers and no profit (leechers). Too high a price- no customers and no profit (tight arses). The right price- model customers and fair profits.

    PS. I owe you an "s". It is in the mail. Careful opening the letter as I may have leaked a little.

    What part of - ISP's set the price and limits - can't you understand?
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2013
  12. SupremeMoFo

    SupremeMoFo Member

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    And you're paying maybe $10-15 each for that connection. So it's really extremely cheap so perhaps you should just be a bit more logical about it and pay more for a better connection...
    Cheers, looking forward to it :lol:
    iiNet bought half/most of them.
     
  13. Anteros

    Anteros Member

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    The internet is not like a car. It's like a series of tubes.
     
  14. caspian

    caspian Member

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    avoid anyone offering bargain basement pricing and I don't think there is much difference between them.

    lennyc, deal with it. you've had it explained to you several times. I'll assume any further issues are due to unwillingness to learn as opposed to lack of opportunity to do so.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2013
  15. [KEi]SoVeReIgN

    [KEi]SoVeReIgN Member

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    It totally does matter if the word unlimited is used - Unlimited has a very specific definition. "Nothing else to pay" is completely different.

    If ISPs said "nothing else to pay" then shaped traffic at whatever their profit margin dictated (within reason), that would be absolutely acceptable and no one would have any cause to complain.

    If an ISP advertises their service as 'Unlimited', they are making a very specific offer based on the black and white definition of the word, there is no grey area for 'up to x amount' - Unlimited means unlimited. If ISPs can't factor in people downloading a huge amount of data they shouldn't be offering an "unlimited" service.

    The same way lease companies aren't stupid enough to advertise 'unlimited' kms - Because it has a very specific definition. I don't know how ISPs have gotten away with it for so long.
     
  16. caspian

    caspian Member

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    I'm over it. the ACMA has effectively killed the concept of unlimited due to a small number of people who abused the concept, those that continue with it either:

    - charge a fortune for it in anticipation of the behaviour pattern of the sort of person who buys an unlimited account
    - doesn't give a shit about the quality of their product offering, and lets their network congest
    - is a damn sight braver than I think the small amount of profit warrants in the face of attention from the ACMA.

    there's a reason why none (that I know of) of the larger/more reputable ISPs offer an unlimited service. if you want a 1 or 2TB then by all means buy one, buy you'll pay for it, and fair enough.

    sorry, but I don't think there's much more discussion to be had on the matter.
     
  17. power

    power Member

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    they haven't Telstra was stopped from using the terminology some time ago.

    As were Optus.

    It's only a matter of time before others who use this terminology incorrectly are stopped.
     
  18. iSTELTHYi

    iSTELTHYi Member

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    I hope you weren't referring to the larger ISPs as also being reputable.

    Bigpond and Optus are to be avoided at all costs!
     
  19. SupremeMoFo

    SupremeMoFo Member

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    The tubes aren't unlimited either. They have saturation points, just like roads.

    lol. That's an insult, suggesting anyone would recommend Bigpond or Optus.
     
  20. lennyc

    lennyc Member

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    Or most likely because of the large number of people being mislead by the ISPs warped definition of the term unlimited. If the ACMA has ruled contrary to your views. Maybe it is you who is wrong in blaming the customers for the problems ISPs have brought onto them selves?
     

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