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SSD Price Discussion

Discussion in 'Storage & Backup' started by tfroggydawg, Jan 19, 2012.

  1. MUTMAN

    MUTMAN Member

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    he could drop them into a pcie adapter, they dont need to be boot drives right ??

    edit - but good catch. i had assumed the mobo side of the equation
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
  2. glenpinn

    glenpinn Member

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    Current setup is below, has an existing 256gb NVMe for Windows, but i really would like to buy 2x 2tb stand alone SSD's as long as they do the same job as an NVMe drive, one for Source files and one for Exports, as he gets some projects now that has up to 800gb of project files, hence getting 2tb drives.

    Depends on price too i guess, if i got 2x 2tb NVMe drives i need an adaptor for the motherboard i assume.

    Some editors have another SSD for Premier/Resolve Cache or something like that, but i don't know how that is set up.

    Case = Aerocool DS mATX Cube-Orange
    PSU = SilverStone Strider Gold 650W ST65F-G modular
    Mobo = MSI B350M Mortar Arctic AM4 mATX
    CPU = AMD Ryzen 1700X
    CPU Cooler = Noctua NH-D15-SE (AM4 Edition)
    Ram = G.Skill Flare-X F4-3200C14D-16GFX 16gb DDR4 3200 MHZ
    Graphics = MSI GTX-1060 OC 6gB
    NVMe = 256gb Samsung 960 EVO (Windows 10)
    480gb Sandisk Ultra 2 (Project/Source files)
    SSD = 480gb SanDisk Plus (Premier/Resolve Exports)
    4tb Seagate 7200 Hard Drive (Export dumps)
    Various portable drives for external backups.

    Upgrading Ram to 32gb
    Upgrade CPU to a Ryzen 9 3900X or XT
    Upgrade 2x SSD's to 2tb each
    Upgrade to an 8tb internal drive for Export dumps.

    The 2tb Adata xpg sx8200 is an NVMe drive, seems to sell for around $500 each.

    2tb Samsung 970 Pro NVMe drive sells for about $620
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
  3. MUTMAN

    MUTMAN Member

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    the real question is; will sata connected drives be fast enough, or do you need nvme speeds ?
     
  4. glenpinn

    glenpinn Member

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    His current Sandisk Ultra 2 has managed to deal with editing his 4.6k BRAW and ProRes 422 HQ project files ok and exporting them to the Sandisk Plus SSD, so i assume the new ones would be fine, but how much faster would the NVMe drives be, if faster then yes i would probably go that rout, as long as at least 2 more NVMe drives (cards) can be added to his current motherboard.
     
  5. HobartTas

    HobartTas Member

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    Doesn't matter as long as its a PRO, so if you need NVME it would be a 970 and for an ordinary SATA connection it would be a Samsung 860 PRO.
     
  6. HobartTas

    HobartTas Member

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    The key to all this is the bandwidth you need to have and looking at ProRes 422 HQ its 367 Mb's or 45 MB's for 1080p at 50 FPS whereas its 1573 Mb's or 196 MB's for 4K at 50 FPS and this would be adequately handled by a regular SATA PRO SSD without bothering with NVME. All NVME does is gives you faster sequential speeds like 2 GB's vs 550 MB's but other things like say random 4KB i/O's with a queue depth of one are still like 30-40 MB's for either of them.

    Just get two SATA PRO's.
     
    MUTMAN likes this.
  7. glenpinn

    glenpinn Member

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    So 2x 2tb Samsung 970 Pro NVMe cards, or 2x 2tb Samsung 860 Pro SSD's, that is great.

    What about this Adata NVMe card, would this be ok as well.
    https://www.scorptec.com.au/product/Hard-Drives-&-SSDs/SSD-mSATA-&-m.2/78435-ASX8200PNP-2TT-C

    So if we went with the NVMe cards, what adapter do i need for the motherboard, as he already has the existing 256gb Team NVMe card for Windows.

    Over in the BlackMagic Forum the guys are throwing up all these very expensive drive bays that hold between 24tb and 48tb of 3.5" hard drives all set up in various RAID configurations just to do their editing, and all he really needs is 2 individual fast SSD's or NVMe cards for source file/editing from, and the other to export to.

    I am still trying to find out if he needs another small dedicated SSD for Cache (Premier and Resolve)

    Thanks for your help BTW, i gave up doing computers several years ago once my Son left for University in Melbourne when he was 19, so i am very much out of the loop now days, Laptops are all i deal with since then.

    This is what the others are throwing at me.

    https://archive.caldigit.com/T4/reviews.asp
    https://shop.westerndigital.com/en-...ogy-g-speed-shuttle-thunderbolt-3-hdd#0G10074
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
  8. HobartTas

    HobartTas Member

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    PCI-e 4x slot is what you need to have and there probably is only one on the consumer motherboard he probably has and the graphics card takes 16x and generally there are only about 23-25 lanes in total available, is the TEAM one up to the task as far as sustained write speeds goes? if not you may need to replace it. The adapter can be bought at MSY relatively inexpensively for $25.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
  9. glenpinn

    glenpinn Member

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    I'm not sure about the TEAM card, has this got any bearing on hoe the video editing works from the other 2 drives.

    Looks like normal SSD's are easier to work with to be honest.
     
  10. HobartTas

    HobartTas Member

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    He'd probably struggle getting a third NVME one in there but a third SATA one is doable as boards generally have 4-6 SATA ports.

    Yeah, but they are dealing with really high end 4K and 8K Prores codecs and they're bandying about numbers like 1 GB's - 1.3 GB's and for that yes they have high end NAS'es and 10 GB'e connections and probably for the 1.3 GB's one they are using 40 GBe connections which I don't think applies here.

    Don't know but what is the sustained write speeds once you exhaust the SLC cache? This could make it unfit for purpose if its like the Samsung QVO's that slow down to 80/160 MB's.

    You're welcome.
     
  11. HobartTas

    HobartTas Member

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    Yes, if he's writing out a 500 GB clip and the speed tanks after the 30 GB SLC buffer expires then yes it could be an issue, but again I don't know anything about this card so you have to ascertain what the sustained write speed for it is.

    I'd say so because each one if its a Samsung PRO can do 550 MB's simultaneously.

    Does he have Thunderbolt 3 on his PC? if not how is he going to connect it as usually I think they are PCI-e cards so that probably wipes out the NVME add on card, alternatively a PCI-e card just for a connection like Thunderbolt 3, 10 GBe or 40 GBe and offloading all the storage onto a NAS filled with SSD's is the other option which is usually what is done.
     
  12. glenpinn

    glenpinn Member

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    Think i just got confirmation that this should be the right setup for my Son at the moment.

    Only need 3 (possibly 4) fast SSD drives plus an 8tb normal hard drive for storage.

    The Premier/Resolve Cache location for Premier or Resolve can be located on the 3rd SSD along with the Scratch or Export Files, or as i have been advised, ADD another fast 512gb Samsung 860 Pro SSD as a dedicated location for the Cache.

    For the Media Cache files, you simply create a folder called CACHE on the drive you want to use, and in Premier or Resolve you simply point your Cache location to this folder.

    For Scratch (Export) File location you simply create another dedicated folder for this on the 2tb Samsung 860 Pro SSD and point Premier/Resolve to that folder.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
  13. HobartTas

    HobartTas Member

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    What are you trying to solve here? There are only two uses for SSD's and they are (1) OS drives and (2) data drives and (2) has been discussed here just now over the past dozen posts or so with regards to speed for the particular purpose of video editing that needs high data speeds and if not then slow ones like Samsung QVO's are probably sufficient to store stuff you might have like Steam and Origin libraries quite adequately.

    With regards to (1) in most cases OS drives are 99% read only and the 1% writes are usually downloading e-mails and PDF's which are more than adequately covered by the 30-50 GB SLC buffer. My Samsung 840 EVO OS drive has the same write speeds as the current QVO's and the only time I have noticed this is when I was migrating a 60GB game over to my OS drive and the first 30 GB went at the speed the hard drive was delivering it at which was 200 MB's and then it slowed down to about 60 MB's for the remaining 30 GB's as the SLC buffer was full. As I said this was the only time this was an issue for me and I doubt its been an issue for anyone else either which is why there's never been a furor over this like has been when WD made the REDS shingled and shit hit the fan when Synology, QNAP and ZFS raids took a week or two to re-silver.

    There was an article on game load speeds on this site's home page a couple of months ago and since most games have zipped up data files the linked article showed that a typical game loaded up something like in 30 seconds on NVME, 40 seconds on SATA SSD and 50 seconds on HDD and some people claim that NVME is more responsive than SATA SSD so yes in that case NVME is probably worth it and yes, you can get datacentre SSD's but do you really need them? do you have say VM's that boot off your OS and do a lot of I/O in the background? All SSD's will always maintain their full read speeds all the time and its just the write speeds that are the only issue (maybe).
     
  14. DarkSnipa

    DarkSnipa Member

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    I dont really need DC SSDs but I thought it might be a good idea to go with these datacenter nvme/sata drives (MLC ones in particular) if they are at similar price of its current gen retail counterparts which are mostly TLC at this point.
     
  15. cvidler

    cvidler Member

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    DC SSD's are usually much more expensive than an 'equivalent' consumer SSD. catch is they're rarely actually equivalent.

    Some features they'll have that you won't find on consumer SSDs.
    - super-capacitor bank for power reliability - think of it as a mini UPS for to ensure whatever is in the RAM buffer on the SSD can be written to flash should power to the system be lost.
    - they're often built/sold as two grades: read-optimised (what every consumer drive is), write-optimised (has a much larger SLC buffer and much larger $).

    unless you're hosting a large and busy database or other high write-I/O function, a write optimised SSD will be an expensive and largely useless option.

    as for reliability of MLC vs TLC, it's rather moot these days, and in a few years time QLC flash will be just as reliable. technologies improve all the time, what was once true, may no longer be the case.
    If you're concerned, check for the lifetime write endurance rating, or DWPD (drive writes per day).
     
    DarkSnipa likes this.
  16. MR CHILLED

    MR CHILLED D'oh!

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  17. coolroy

    coolroy Member

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    Anyone here received their cashback from Samsung's SSD cashback promo yet?
     
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  18. MR CHILLED

    MR CHILLED D'oh!

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    Doubt it! They take ages normally, and that's not even with covid :Paranoid:
     
  19. coolroy

    coolroy Member

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    Considering Crucial MX500 1TB 3D NAND SSD at $169 inc delivery from Centrecom for new MSI GL75 10SEQ laptop just for additional storage.

    Only have one sata ssd/hdd bay available as the main drive is the NVME that it came with.

    Anyone here have any suggestions as why the Crucial might be a poor choice?

    The Evo 860 is still dearer after cashback & with the slow & painful promo process I am not so keen to give them anymore of my business at present...

    Or has anyone seen a better solution for 1tb ssd with read write around the 560MB/s write 510MB/s specs?
     
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  20. glenpinn

    glenpinn Member

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    I am getting 2x 2tb and 1x 1tb Samsung 860 Pro SSD's to put in my Sons Editing computer rather than use several normal hard drives in Raid-0 or RAID-5 that some people use.

    The 1tb Samsung 860 Pro SSD's are $448 with a few $$$$$ cashback after purchase, but they are high performance drives designed for stuff like video editing, and can sustain those high read/write speeds a lot better than the cheaper SSD's can.

    My guess is that the Crutial MX500 does not sustain those read/write speeds very well, given the $169 price, but for not critical use they should be fine.

    EDIT: @ coolroy..........what will you be using the MX500 for, if just for storage of files, you can buy 2.5" mechanical laptop drives in 1tb, 2tb, 4tb and 5tb for a lot cheaper price per GB, and they will be perfect for storage as you don't really need high read/write speeds for that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2020
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