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The C64 (and other 8-bit Commodore machines) thread.

Discussion in 'Retro & Arcade' started by lupin, Nov 8, 2014.

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What 8-bit Commodore machines do you have in your collection?

  1. Commodore KIM-1

    1 vote(s)
    1.0%
  2. Commodore PET/CBM

    3 vote(s)
    2.9%
  3. Commodore CBM-II (B128/B256/128-80/256-80/500/600/610/700)

    1 vote(s)
    1.0%
  4. Commodore MAX

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Commodore VIC-20

    14 vote(s)
    13.6%
  6. Commodore 64 (The older brown fat model known as the "Breadbin")

    48 vote(s)
    46.6%
  7. Commodore 64C (The newer beige slim model)

    48 vote(s)
    46.6%
  8. Commodore 64GS

    1 vote(s)
    1.0%
  9. Commodore SX-64

    6 vote(s)
    5.8%
  10. Commodore Educator 64

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. Commodore 16

    4 vote(s)
    3.9%
  12. Commodore 116 (Cost-reduced version of the C16 sold only in Europe)

    1 vote(s)
    1.0%
  13. Commodore Plus/4

    7 vote(s)
    6.8%
  14. Commodore 128

    10 vote(s)
    9.7%
  15. Commodore 128D

    9 vote(s)
    8.7%
  16. Commodore 128DCR (Cost-reduced and bug-corrected version of the C128D)

    2 vote(s)
    1.9%
  17. Commodore Prototype/Unreleased (C65/C900/LCD/Other)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  18. Commodore Emulator - I don't have real Commodore 8-bit machines anymore :(

    20 vote(s)
    19.4%
  19. Commodore Emulator - I've never seen/owned real Commodore 8-bit machines, but wish I did!

    2 vote(s)
    1.9%
  20. Commodore Remake - FPGA or similar modern day implementation

    3 vote(s)
    2.9%
  21. Commodore Candy - I thought Commodore was a car model...?

    1 vote(s)
    1.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. flu!d

    flu!d Motoring and Intel forum admin

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    Downloaded this demo to run on my C64 with the intention of making a video, as it turns out filming CRT's is really hard. So basically I thought stuff it and figured it's easier just to link this video of the demo.

    This is amazing, not to mention hilarious. Remember, this is a machine designed in 1982.

     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2021
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  2. flu!d

    flu!d Motoring and Intel forum admin

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    Finally got around to installing RAMDOSII, now I have a 16MB RAM disk I can access from JiffyDOS.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Vanne

    Vanne Member

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    That's cool, it's volutile I'll assume?
     
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  4. flu!d

    flu!d Motoring and Intel forum admin

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    Yeah, it's volatile. However I can pre load files into it on boot via the 1541 Ultimate II+.
     
  5. Vanne

    Vanne Member

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    That's awesome for if your Dev'ing on it. Sprite proggy always on stby. :thumbup:
     
  6. flu!d

    flu!d Motoring and Intel forum admin

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    Some more productivity experimentation in 80 columns on the C64.

    This is Interword, and while photographing CRT's doesn't quite do the resulting IQ the justice it deserves, I'm quite impressed. Since I can print to pdf I may make use of this! Very Amiga like in looks.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. flu!d

    flu!d Motoring and Intel forum admin

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    Today's exercise involves surfing the internet, it's actually pretty damn fast.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. elvis

    elvis OCAU's most famous and arrogant know-it-all

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    Give "Open Camera" a go:
    https://opencamera.org.uk/
    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.sourceforge.opencamera&hl=en_AU&gl=US

    In there is an option to auto-sync to refresh displays and strobe lights. Takes a couple of seconds to measure the refresh, but then all your CRT sync mismatch vanishes, and it works really well.

    I used it to film my entire CRT Colour Calibration series on YouTube, and it turned out quite well.
     
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  9. flu!d

    flu!d Motoring and Intel forum admin

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    I will do this. Thank you Elvis. :)
     
  10. flu!d

    flu!d Motoring and Intel forum admin

    Joined:
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    Hardware 80 columns with none of the limitations of old and a huge colour palette, I need this.

     
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  11. flu!d

    flu!d Motoring and Intel forum admin

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    Impressive graphics. This 1982 machine still amazes me.

    Bear in mind that photo's really don't do the quality on a CRT justice.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  12. MUTMAN

    MUTMAN Member

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    8 bits & 16 colours
    bloody clever
     
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  13. flu!d

    flu!d Motoring and Intel forum admin

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    It's just amazing.

    When I was 12yo, if you had have told me such fantastic hardware and software would still be developed in 2021 for the C64, I would have said you're mad. Yet here we are, and that little 8bit machine from 1982 is still very much alive and kicking.
     
  14. badmofo

    badmofo Member

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    Amazing machines them C64s. I'm reading 'Commodore: The Amiga Years' ATM and I'm up to ~1987 - the various incarnations of the Amiga had been around for a while, costing the company shitloads and not really making any money yet. The mighty C64 was five years old and still their biggest money maker, what a legend!
     
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  15. MUTMAN

    MUTMAN Member

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    i've never really "loved" anything past 8 bit computers and 16 bit consoles.
    relatively recently i found out some of my greatest toys were a mere 4 bit :)
    dont get me wrong, tech today is amazeballs, but i cant help but feel its a little incremental.

    i can only imagine the same feelings were had by people in the golden age of cars or planes, when each day a masssive discovery or announcement was made.
    and no doubt, some old crank (like me) somewhere was saying he remembered the good old days of horses ......
    :)
     
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  16. flu!d

    flu!d Motoring and Intel forum admin

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    I totally feel the same way, modern machines are fairly sterile compared to the 8bit hey day - Amazing, but sterile.

    I like Linux because it still, I dunno, gives me those old feels in a modern way...

    I loved the Amiga, I still have two Amiga's here. But the C64 was always my favorite machine.
     
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  17. elvis

    elvis OCAU's most famous and arrogant know-it-all

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    Somewhat easier to do in 2021 with nice fast computers that can do better dithering using more advanced perceptive colour libraries to create the images and move them across.

    "Back in the day" they had to do it all by hand/eye. That, and the people making tools and games for ye olde computers were rarely trained artists, but rather programmers with a creative eye.

    That's also why I really enjoy modern games on retro hardware. It's still the same limitations of the old hardware, but with 20-30 years of hindsight, as well as much better modern development and creative tools to help. It really shows what the upper bounds of this old gear was, and how even after so long there's so little software that really shows off what they can do.
     
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  18. flu!d

    flu!d Motoring and Intel forum admin

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    I did some benchmarking using JiffyDOS 6.01 with alternate 1541 ROM's. One ROM is the standard 8k JiffyDOS 1541 ROM, and the other ROM is the S-JiffyDOS 32k ROM. I didn't use the actual S-JiffyDOS kernel as it's command structure sucks and it's not the kernel that provides any benefit.

    The C64 CLI does state "S-JiffyDOS", I just modified the JiffyDOS kernel to reflect that an S-JiffyDOS 1541 ROM is being used.

    Basically, under the 1541 S-JiffyDOS ROM (32k), loading speeds are amazing and notably faster in use. See below:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Vs the standard 1541 JiffyDOS ROM (8k):

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    That 1715 bytes per second is huge, and immediately noticeable. However, then we get to the save times:

    1541 S-JiffyDOS ROM (32k):

    [​IMG]

    Vs the standard 1541 JiffyDOS ROM (8k):

    [​IMG]

    I personally found these results very interesting, as technically S-JiffyDOS is supposed to provide 50-100% faster loads as well as directory seeks, and 100% faster saves by changing the GCR decode/encode speed - That's not what I'm seeing!

    However, I load more than I save, so the improved load times are beneficial to me. Furthermore, listing a directory is substantially faster and there's the option for 40 tracks and the ability to save data in the directory track for slightly more storage capacity (Which I still have to play with). See the directory listing below (note the +17 in DIR next to blocks free):

    [​IMG]

    It must be noted that I am using emulated cycle accurate 1541's via the 1541 Ultimate II+ complete with 40k RAM BOards. I wonder why save speeds are so low? I would have imagined they'd at least be up to basic JiffyDOS speeds.
     
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  19. flu!d

    flu!d Motoring and Intel forum admin

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    Some more storage benchmarking tonight, this is really impressive.

    Using my 1541 Ultimate II+ with the latest firmware 3.9 I can enable the Hyperspeed kernel - This smashes anything else out there and proves that not only can the Commodore compete with the 8bit Atari's regarding serial FDD and mass storage performance, they can also compete with the 8bit Atari's using data transfer directly to the bus - In the case of the Commodore however, performance is limited by memory speed and not CPU speed as data is transferred directly using DMA.

    The kernel loaded:

    [​IMG]

    And check this out! Woah!

    [​IMG]

    Even save times are quite impressive considering validation:

    [​IMG]

    Apparently this mode is coming with JiffyDOS support very soon so the alternate kernel won't be needed, I think the driver can be loaded via emulated cartridge.
     
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  20. Vanne

    Vanne Member

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    Sweet !!! Appreciate your findings mate :)
     
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