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The C64 (and other 8-bit Commodore machines) thread.

Discussion in 'Retro & Arcade' started by lupin, Nov 8, 2014.

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What 8-bit Commodore machines do you have in your collection?

  1. Commodore KIM-1

    1 vote(s)
    1.0%
  2. Commodore PET/CBM

    3 vote(s)
    3.0%
  3. Commodore CBM-II (B128/B256/128-80/256-80/500/600/610/700)

    1 vote(s)
    1.0%
  4. Commodore MAX

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Commodore VIC-20

    14 vote(s)
    14.0%
  6. Commodore 64 (The older brown fat model known as the "Breadbin")

    47 vote(s)
    47.0%
  7. Commodore 64C (The newer beige slim model)

    45 vote(s)
    45.0%
  8. Commodore 64GS

    1 vote(s)
    1.0%
  9. Commodore SX-64

    6 vote(s)
    6.0%
  10. Commodore Educator 64

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. Commodore 16

    4 vote(s)
    4.0%
  12. Commodore 116 (Cost-reduced version of the C16 sold only in Europe)

    1 vote(s)
    1.0%
  13. Commodore Plus/4

    7 vote(s)
    7.0%
  14. Commodore 128

    10 vote(s)
    10.0%
  15. Commodore 128D

    9 vote(s)
    9.0%
  16. Commodore 128DCR (Cost-reduced and bug-corrected version of the C128D)

    2 vote(s)
    2.0%
  17. Commodore Prototype/Unreleased (C65/C900/LCD/Other)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  18. Commodore Emulator - I don't have real Commodore 8-bit machines anymore :(

    19 vote(s)
    19.0%
  19. Commodore Emulator - I've never seen/owned real Commodore 8-bit machines, but wish I did!

    2 vote(s)
    2.0%
  20. Commodore Remake - FPGA or similar modern day implementation

    3 vote(s)
    3.0%
  21. Commodore Candy - I thought Commodore was a car model...?

    1 vote(s)
    1.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Vanne

    Vanne Member

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    Don't want to sell your old one to me do ya? ;)
     
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  2. flu!d

    flu!d Never perfect, always genuine

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    I tell you what, the ability to mount and run GMod2.CRT images is pretty nice with the new firmware. I just bought Planet X2.1 as it looks really cool and being in GMod2 format it's a 512k image that loads instantly and I can save to it!
     
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  3. bester

    bester Member

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    Sounds good, according to aus post tracking I should have my new one next week, so I can look to offload the old one at that point, will advise when it arrives.
     
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  4. flu!d

    flu!d Never perfect, always genuine

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    Any setup pics yet guys?
     
  5. Vanne

    Vanne Member

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    Sounds like a plan :D
     
  6. flu!d

    flu!d Never perfect, always genuine

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    I was going through my YouTube video's when I found an old MilkyTracker upload (I think I was mostly testing screen recording software at the time, which had fairly disappointing results). I thought it would be interesting to compare the C64 playing back a 4 channel MOD file vs the newer x64 machine playing back a 24 track MOD file.

    The 24 track MOD file is amazing and just keeps getting better as you play it, the notes just pump. But considering the C64 is running 4 channels and can run up to 7 channels via the Ultimate Audio Module, I think it does pretty damn good with a little modern assistance.



     
  7. flu!d

    flu!d Never perfect, always genuine

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    I have to say, as a kid the VIC-20 was my first experience in personal computing, but after the initial wonder of a 'real computer' wore off I never really had a lot of interest in it as it was just too limiting. Not long after, I got the C64 and was immediately hooked, so I sort of class the C64 as my first 'real computer'.

    However I was doing some Googling today in lockdown (yay) and come across this very interesting thread regarding the VIC-20 Super Expander cartridge, the Expander Cartridge provided an extra 3k of RAM (important when you only have 3k of usable RAM!) as well as some additional BASIC functions that weren't that useful and actually used the extra memory - However, it appears there was two variants of the cartridge, one for the US market and one for the Japanese market. Both had the same part number, but with a different letter at the end.

    Someone posted on a forum stating they had one of these Japanese cartridges (most have the US cartridge) and they were wondering what the differences were - No one really knew, so the community asked for a ROM dump. Which revealed some very interesting differences between the two cartridges that in my mind highlight that Commodore had real plans for the expandability of the VIC-20, especially considering the VC-1020 expansion chassis. Take a read, it's very, very interesting. I wonder if any such thing was considered for the C64? Having said that the expansion port of the C64 had some very unique DMA and Ultimax features that are proving to be very useful today.

    Here's the thread:

    http://sleepingelephant.com/~sleepi...sid=badf609205d072ceec1ac5012fd871b6&start=15

    Here's some pictures of the expansion chassis:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. flu!d

    flu!d Never perfect, always genuine

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    Because real CMD hardware is unobtanium and therefore stupidly expensive and your chances of ever owning a SuperCPU are are about as likely as you winning the lottery, let alone a SuperCPU with 16MB of CPU ram - I set up a CMD SuperCPU with 16MB CPU ram under VICE to run Metal Dust. All in all, sometimes configuring emulation, which involves finding ROM's that are deliberately difficult to find, is as hard as soldering upgrades into real machines! But I persevered and eventually got it all running nicely.

    My next job is to set up a CMD 16MB RAMlink to speed up loading times.

    So here we we are at 20Mhz running a 65C816S CPU:

     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2021
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  9. MUTMAN

    MUTMAN Member

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    right, i never knew these things existed :o
    thanks for the trip down the rabbit hole :thumbup:

    kind of, but not, surprising no one has made a modern implementation of this on a fpga
     
  10. bester

    bester Member

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    My new 1541 Ultimate-II+ did arrive last week, but I have had zero time to do anything with it due to work and social commitments. I'll finally have a chance this weekend so will be in touch then about the old one.
     
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  11. flu!d

    flu!d Never perfect, always genuine

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    TBH...

    It frustrates the shit outa me that no one has tried to make a modern SuperCPU with 16MB CPU ram in FPGA! I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
     
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  12. flu!d

    flu!d Never perfect, always genuine

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    I didn't quite film this at the right time of the day, I should have waited just five minutes...

    I found this terminal client called Retroterm, here it is connected at 38,400bps using Swiftlink emulation via the 1541 Ultimate II+. I just love the 'War Games' like sounds!

    "Greetings professor Falken"

     
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  13. bester

    bester Member

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    Tested the new 1541 Ultimate-II+ quickly, all good and Jiffy ROMs loaded. No pictures of the setup yet as I am waiting on a replacement COREi64 tape case (the wrong colour was sent) from Canada, so will be about a month.

    The old 1541 Ultimate-II unit is below, will send Vanne a PM.

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. flu!d

    flu!d Never perfect, always genuine

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    I don't use the tape adapter anymore, well in fact I can't as the SD2IEC is in the way.

    There's hardly any .TAP files around that specifically need the tape adapter, and even then I'll look for .D64's as .TAP is just too slow and painful. The only tape based archives I use are .T64's and they can be loaded via DMA. Having a mass storage device like the SD2IEC is far more useful.
     
  15. Vanne

    Vanne Member

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    Thx man, appreciated the cart mate. ;)
     
  16. MUTMAN

    MUTMAN Member

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  17. callan

    callan Member

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    I have one of each of the PSU's he's commenting on, and they seem to fit the bill.The fellow listed is an idiot - unloaded outputs have little bearing on real-world, loaded performance. The PSU's work fine (I have a sample of each of them!) and they are FAR, far superior to the original, dangerous PSU's from Commodore.
     
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  18. MUTMAN

    MUTMAN Member

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    cheers
    I'll add the adjustable option on the ugly one

    and done :)
    cant wait to get this bad boy up on the desk and pumping.
    feels like i've been in a time worm hole recently and just this weekend made a dent in the list of "shit that needs to be done"

    went expensive to be quick :s

    upload_2021-8-22_22-13-26.png
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2021
  19. Vanne

    Vanne Member

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    Yeah I've got one of each too, actually now have two of the ones you choose above, though one has the extra 1541 power socket. Exellent PSU, absolutely great PSU..
     
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  20. flu!d

    flu!d Never perfect, always genuine

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    This is a thread I posted in another Commodore forum, I thought some may find it useful here as it outlines some basics regarding JiffyDOS. A number of people think the C64 never really had any form of DOS, but JiffyDOS was a great DOS and it was lean - Which is what a disk operating system should be.

    Perhaps someone will learn something useful?

    One thing I notice when I see people using their C64, especially with mass storage solutions like the SD2IEC (which people mistakenly believe is a 1541 replacement when it is not, it's more like a CMD-HD/Rear Admiral Thunderdrive replacement) is they tend to use launchers like FB64 as opposed to making use of excellent solutions like JiffyDOS. Which I think is a shame as JiffyDOS is a very powerful disk operating system, especially when using mass storage solutions like the SD2IEC that support the CMD-HD extended commands allowing the user to make directories, change directories, mount D64/D81's and essentially navigate the entire file system.

    Due to this, I thought I take a handful of screenshots giving those interested a small taste of what JiffyDOS is capable of using mass storage. Bear in mind, this isn't a tutorial as such, this is just showing people that the de facto DOS standard for the C64 is actually a very capable disk operating system - Unlike CBM DOS which was barely a DOS at all!

    Furthermore, as most are probably aware, JiffyDOS is fast - My SD2IEC is 22x faster than my 1541 with the SD2IEC running JiffyDOS. That's almost 9000 bytes per second on a 1982 computer.

    Screenshot number one, the RAMdisk.

    For those running an REU or a 1541 Ultimate II (+), you can run up to an 8MB RAMdisk for temporary and very fast file storage. This does involve the installation of RamDOS II, which is easier if you have a 1541 Ultimate II (+) or Ultimate 64.

    The command @#15 changes to drive 15 (the RAMdisk)

    [​IMG]

    Screenshot number two, the time stamped directory listing.

    Running JiffyDOS with mass storage (SD2IEC/CMD-HD/Rear Admiral Thunderdrive), you can use the '=T' switch to get the short time stamped directory listing, which can be very handy when searching for files of a certain date (you can actually use additional switches to narrow down directory listings to only directories, program files, sequential files, relative files or even files before or after a certain time stamp or files of a particular name or containing certain letters - However such commands are beyond this simple demonstration).

    Under JiffyDOS @$ is the command to get a directory listing without corrupting basic programs in memory. To get a time stamped directory listing use @$=T:

    [​IMG]

    Screenshot number three, partition listings.

    Running mass storage as listed above, you can actually create up to 16 partitions on the SD2IEC and up to 255 partitions on the CMD-HD and Rear Admiral Thunderdrives. The reason the SD2IEC is limited to 16 partitions is due to the fact that D64/D81 containers have virtually made all 255 partitions redundant (the partitions were originally intended to be used as 'virtual disks'), however the ability to make up to 16 partitions per drive can come in very handy.

    For example: You can make one small partition at the start of your mass storage drive containing one .PRG file, hold down 'SHIFT' and 'RUN/STOP' while powering on the C64 using JiffyDOS and the C64 will automatically boot the .PRG file in the first partition. This can be very handy regarding loader menu's. Furthermore, the auto boot feature works whether the mass storage drive is device 8, 9,10,11 - Basically JiffyDOS will boot the first .PRG file off the first mass storage device it sees connected to the machine and powered on.

    SYS = a system partition (used by the firmware of the SD2IEC), NAT = A CMD native partition (on the SD2IEC this is a FAT32 partition).

    Use the switch '=P' to get a partition listing. So the command would be: @$=P under JiffyDOS.

    [​IMG]

    Screenshot number four. Change partitions.

    To change into another partition, use the command '@CP'. So to change into partition number two, you would enter @CP2 under JiffyDOS. You can also get a directory listing of various partitions while staying within your current partition and you can copy files between partitions. However, once again, that is beyond the scope of this demonstration.

    [​IMG]

    Screenshot number five. Navigating directories and mounting D64's or running a PRG file the long way (yes, it is possible).

    By using forward slashes and colons, you can navigate to a particular directory and either mount a D64/D84 or run a .PRG file. String together a long command as follows. Remember, the colon has to go just before the destination directory/D64/D81 or PRG file.

    If you just want to navigate to one directory (using the example a directory called 'utilities'), you would enter @CD:utilities. To go back to the parent directory you would enter @CD< (as in the back arrow key beside the number 1 key). To go all the way back to the root directory you would enter CD//.

    [​IMG]

    So following my command, I am mounting the D64 located in /utilities/communications software and the D64 is called ulti term 24.d64. As you can see the asterisk can be used as a wild card and directories can have spaces.

    I hope this gives people an idea of just how powerful JiffyDOS can be, it really is a great disk operating system and brings out the best regarding our favorite 8bit machine. What's even more amazing is that it fits in an 8k ROM and unlike other competing 8bit machines running alternate disk operating systems remains basically 100% compatible with all Commodore software and software loaders.

    I love my C64...

    See here for more reading (and there's much more to learn!):

    And a cheat sheet. You can print this for reference.
     
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