Discussion in 'Geek Food' started by Goobers, May 9, 2011.
Thanks Zee , will have to look into that.
So been playing around with the Niche Zero for a couple of days now and really enjoying it. It's pretty quiet, but also very low pitched which makes it seem quieter than it is.
Grind consistency has been great, and the workflow with the dosing cup that fits perfectly into the portafilter is awesome. Retention is consistently around 0.1 grams.
Overall a really fantastic grinder and well worth the $1,000. Can't think of a better grinder for the money. Next step up in my mind is the Lagom P64 which costs over $2k for slightly better results.
I note that the Law of Diminishing Returns is as applicable to high-end coffee brewing equipment as it is to any other aspirational purchase
(looking at you, performance cars and "audiophile" Hi-Fi).
What do you guys reckon is the sweet spot for a European machine? I read a review of krappo's Rubino and it seems like great value for under $2.5k given the features.
Still well out of my price range at the moment, but far more accessible than the $3.5-$4.5k that many machines seem to go for.
I'm sure there's decent compact machines out there for under $2k, but I figure if you're dropping that kind of cash on a kitchen appliance you might as well go the whole hog.
Lots of different views out their on this - so don't take mine as gospel.
I'm basically of the view that a coffee machine is just that - a machine. For me, that means that the features and functions are everything. I don't need my coffee machine to look like a Ferrari, nor do I need it to be built so robustly that it could pull 500 shots a day in a cafe.
So with that said, my view is to spend either $800 on a Breville Dual Boiler (dual boilers, dual PID, custom pre-infusion pressure and length, can pull low-pressure shots if you're into that, good quality and local parts and servicing), or, spend $6k on a Decent DE1Pro which is the single most feature rich espresso machine in existence and because it's completely software driven, can and will be updated with features for years to come. Think of it like the Tesla of coffee machines.
For me personally, anything else simply doesn't provide the value.
Wasn't aware it was a pain in the ass to get - had mine for a year.
I largely agree with this - so long as you don't want to push difficult SO's, the BES920 Dual Boiler (and its refreshes) covers everything *most* users want, and will happily make a great coffee out of most beans you can buy commercially.
You lose me on the Decent. There is no track record of serviceability. A big reason i went the GS3 wasn't because it will do 400 coffee's a day, every day - its because its 95% shared with the Linea PB's and Strata's which run most commercial shops on the planet.
I don't want a $6k paperweight that fails mechanically.
Grinder wise, I'd be pairing it with better than the smart grinder - something like the Sette 270, Niche, Mahlkonig Vario - will be a forever grinder at that tier.
That's exactly why I have a Silvia and no PID.
It does one thing.
There's actually a great record of serviceability and customer service from Decent. Sure, it's only 3 - 4 years old, but people have overwhelmingly had great experiences. The entire machine can be easily opened and user serviced/rebuilt if you wish.
The Decent CEO is an enthusiast and super transparent. There are videos on Youtube where he walks you through all of the parts inside of their machines and they're all high quality and should last a long time. They also have local servicing and warranty work in many countries (including Australia) so there's no need to order parts from overseas or worse still send the machine overseas.
Each to their own - but I'm of the opinion that the Decent is built more than well enough and don't have any concerns as to its longevity - to the extent that I'll be purchasing one myself in the near future.
The GS3 is a great machine no doubt, with excellent build quality - but I won't pay 50% more for a machine that can do less
I'm not doubting it - and i'm extremely conservative in terms of reliability/supportability - but you simply cannot compare the biggest name in commercial machines for "third wave" coffee to a passionate kickstarter. I'm not a boiler maker, nor an electrician - and playing with pressure vessels, water and mains power is not something i'm comfortable with.
My GS3 5 years ago was what your Decent would be.
At this price point, definitely, definitely, definitely the Lelit Mara X.
Man I must say, the lelit mara and lelit bianca are both so very sharply priced for what they are in their respective price points. As far as the mara x goes, the last hospitality venue I was in was a bar, and the only saving grace was they had a really great single-group E61 machine in there that with only a bit of practice I was turning really reliably great coffee out of. That machine was probably a 4.5k machine, was way bloody better than most of the three group machines i'd used in the past, in a tiny space. For the tiny coffee volume that place did, god it was great. The mara x is more or less equivalent to that, at half the price.
Equally, the bianca is *most* of the way to being the equivalent of the 13k slayer single group, for $4k.
Lelit are really killing it in the semi-pro market at the moment. I must say the decent does not appeal to me at all, I'd be more inclined to go for MORE manual, not less.
So much great info in this thread for someone like me...
Computers, Electronics and Audio-Visual manufacturer knowledge: Expert Level
Photography, Automotive, General Tools & Hardware knowledge: Journeyman/Apprentice Level
Boutique & Semi-pro Coffee Brewing equipment knowledge: Novice Level
Gives me plenty of reading to do about a topic that is relevant to my interests. Cheers guys.
Edit: Lelit Mara X looks to be very keenly priced indeed...
krappo, closely priced to your Quickmill, was the Lelit in the running and the Rubino won out on features, or footprint, or... ?
Picked up a Nuova Simonelli MCF the other day which was sitting unused in a clients office, apparently it's had no more than an hours use. Should be a decent upgrade from the Smart Grinder Pro
So looking at upgrading from my Sunbeam Mini Barista (EM4300), any reason not to go the Lelit Anna w/ PID outside of the 57mm portafilter? Would go the Breville dual boiler but countertop space is at a premium.
I have a Lelit Diana PL60, had it for ~6 years. Works great never had an issue, very good brand and machine.
Hmm EM7000, BES920 or some other machine?
We currently have "The Infuser" which has been okay, but I don't like that it's a 51mm(?) portafilter making aftermarket parts harder to find. This also means that the common dose sizes don't really work with the machine. I also feel it's not pushing 9bar (the pressure gauge broke after 18 months of use as well ).
Have not had the greatest experience with Breville and Sunbeam, machines just don't last as long without needing major repairs. The last EM6800 I had needed the entire group head replaced and then had an electrical fault. See issues above with the Breville.
The chassis and hopper together bear an uncanny resemblance to the Eureka Mignon series. Specs look solid, good buy!
James has released his new video comparing a selection of 'mid-range' coffee machines - I think it's a great resource for anyone looking for a machine in this range with unbiased information from someone that knows theier stuff:
Really validates my opinion that the Breville Dual Boiler is the best overall machine you can get for under $3 - $4k. James basically pegged the BDB on par with the Profitec 500, which in Australia is a $3000 machine versus $800 (or even $700 on deep sale) for the BDB.
Yeah was gonna say.. $3k?
Haha I'm stuck around the $1k mark..
What grinder would we get to match this?
I think the baratza-sette-270 would be a good match with the BDB and would keep the cost at approxamately the same as buying the Dynamic duo. You would end up with a far superior grinder for the cost.
Which would be better? timed or weight based grinding?