The Great Big NBN Sticky Thread

Discussion in 'Networking, Telephony & Internet' started by Akh-Horus, Dec 21, 2016.

  1. Rubberband

    Rubberband Member

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    My initial post was a warning, I wasn't intending to debate the inner workings of the NBN service, sorry! :)

    However, I would appreciate any insights you might have, apart from pushing ABB, or if you could point me towards the NBN SLA they are using to push back on my tickets, if they are the ones slowing its resolution.

    But other than that we seem to have different opinions on how services are defined, delivered and managed and that really isn't something I want to discuss, even if we both had the same opinions.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
  2. kombiman

    kombiman Dis-Member

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    What does FTTN connect to your house with? I wonder what I have as they have put a box right up to my house? They needed to bypass the copper as it was totally shagged locally.
     
  3. caspian

    caspian Member

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    the service restoration SLAs are documented in the table at the top of page 15 of this document: https://www.nbnco.com.au/content/da...edule-nbnEthernet_Product_Module_20180328.pdf

    and the ticket closure following resolution timeframes are in the table at the bottom of page 181 of this document: https://www.nbnco.com.au/content/da...2/SFAA-WBA-WBA_Operations-Manual_20180328.pdf

    there is no documented SLA for service stability. the 5 drops/day is an internal best-effort target to provide guidance to all, not an obligation.

    I'm explaining how it is, which may or may not be representative of my personal preferences - not that it matters, because it is what it is regardless of anyone's opinion. I'm pretty used to getting attacked personally for differentiating between reality and preference, I'm not offended in the slightest other than by people wasting my time when they can't do the same. both you and I could shout and scream and complain it's not fair and we don't like it and whatever else we like, and it won't change anything whatsoever.

    it is for more important and useful to understand what you are entitled to, as opposed to what you'd like to have. the former allows you to ensure you are receiving your entitlements, the latter is angsty material for those wishing to set the world to rights on whinepool.


    pic would help, but FTTN just uses the same copper line you have now.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
  4. Pugs

    Pugs Member

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    Just the standard "soap dish" then internal cabling to a phone point
     
  5. Jimmyb53

    Jimmyb53 Member

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    Well I've been suffering constant dropouts as well. Maybe not as regular as you Rubberband, but they are there and it's actually quite frustrating. I have done everything you have short of replacing the line to my house, as it's a rental, and I can't afford that.

    Raised it with ABB, she apparently ran every test they could including one through their "NBN portal". The line came back as unstable and they applied a "Stability Profile" to my connection. The dropouts have reduced slightly, but they still occur. I was supposed to get a message from NBN with an appointment date that I can confirm, but no message so far. Would love to know where that went... Missed a call from ABB today but as I was working, I couldn't call back. May try again tomorrow.
     
  6. mareke

    mareke Member

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    I'd be very annoyed if I experienced up to 5 dropouts per day and got told that this was acceptable. My townhouse is 300 metres from the pillar & 200 metres from the telephone exchange as the crow flies and I've never suffered dropouts in all the years I've been on ADSL2. I presume that with ADSL2 the further you are from your pillar and the exchange the greater the likelihood of dropouts. If you are connected to the NBN dropouts should be much rarer and depend on the quality of the copper line between the pillar and the house and the distance to the pillar.

    I should go to the next inspection of my rental property in a couple of weeks so I can ask the tenants about how good the NBN is. The pillar is 20 metres from the house and the node is around the block. As long as the 20 metres of copper line from the pillar to the rental property is in good condition the NBN should be as good as it gets making the rental property more attractive to prospective tenants!
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
  7. Ratzz

    Ratzz Member

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    I've had no more than a couple of 2 second dropouts (that I've been aware of) since I got connected. I'm on HFC though, not sure if that makes a difference in that respect. The HFC certainly works better than the old copper, not just in line speed but reliability. Now, when it rains, I don't lose what little internet I had with copper. Just a cloud overhead was enough to kill my internet for hours on copper, or so it seemed.

    Its all luck of the draw, and you can blame that directly on the government. Rudd's version would have provided everyone with the same experience, and I wouldn't be one of the lucky ones, everyone else would have just as good an experience as I am having (apart from the insane issues I had actually getting connected in the first place).
     
  8. kombiman

    kombiman Dis-Member

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    Ok it seems I have HFC from the NBN address lookup. Thankful as the copper would drop out with any rain which meant summer was a lottery here in the subtropics and no action to fix.
     
  9. Rubberband

    Rubberband Member

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    This is what happened with me too. Then it was the router, then NBN insisting on the replacement phone line before doing any more tests.

    I only paid $220 for the cable, I've heard some quotes from dodgy bastards as high as $600.

    ABB are pretty persistent, just get back to them when you can.
     
  10. caspian

    caspian Member

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    NBN always assure the line to the network boundary point, all they ask is that the access seeker reasonably isolate any potential network fault into their network before escalating. that's no different from what any other carrier on the planet does, it's industry standard. that means trying a different modem and line cord to make sure they're not the cause of the fault, which is again very standard and reasonable.

    there is no question of asking anyone to "replace the line to their house", and neither can anyone do so legally anyway. it's NBN property and can't be touched by anyone other than NBN or their agents.

    it's entirely possible that the network boundary point isn't inside your dwelling (e.g. MDF in a multi dwelling unit arrangement) but again that's no difference to what has always been the case, it's defined by the Telecommunications Act. the cabling past that point is privately owned, not NBN's so they don't assure it.
     
  11. Rubberband

    Rubberband Member

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    The problem here is, anecdotally and according to ABB, replacing the router and replacing the phone line inside the house is what is required before NBN will consider escalating to an on-site tech. As I said before, quite reasonable in most diagnostic situations, but less so when it costs the customer $$$ with no offer of reimbursement if the NBN is at fault.

    If ABB are lying, and I get proof, I'll advise the TIO.

    Telstra (used to?) pass on the cost for on-site testing, if the customer is a numpty, so where is this option with the NBN? Can the ISP request this on their customer's behalf?

    P.S. I'm having a senior moment, I couldn't find the data in the links you provided.
     
  12. caspian

    caspian Member

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    that is very much not what NBN require, and I should know because I either wrote the work instructions concerning the situation, or at least reviewed them if someone else did.

    the "phone line" refers to the 2 metre long line cord from the socket to the modem. that's about $3 from Bunnings assuming you don't have a spare one around the place or can't borrow one from another device temporarily. they get damaged easily, which is why it's industry standard to swap them out as a standard step of elimination. it does not refer to any fixed cabling inside your house! if there is any connotation whatsoever about recabling the house then this is something your RSP has managed to misinterpret, and as I said earlier it's moreever not something you can do anyway as it's upstream of the legally defined network boundary point and thus only NBN or their agents can touch it.

    trying a different modem is also something totally standard and done by every single carrier and network operator on the face of the planet. it is not a blocker to attendance, it is simply that it's a necessary step to sectionalising a possible fault into the network, and if a tech has to come out and prove the service works with their modem (i.e. your modem is at fault) then there is a fee charged for the attendance. nobody wants that, so you are asked to try a different modem if possible. if your RSP has represented that as a concrete requirement then again that is something they have misinterpreted.

    no, they warn the access seeker that if the fault was found to be outside their network (e.g. the privately owned modem) and they had to attend to prove that fact, there would be a callout fee charged. if the fault was internal to their network, there was no charge as that was their responsibility to maintain.

    that is precisely the same as what NBN does now.

    and yes I'm really really sure of this, because I was Telstra's national service assurance lead for quite some years, and all of this is industry standard practice all over the world.

    of course. as I said, it's not a blocker, and if your RSP says it is, that is of their making. all it means is that by not isolating your privately owned equipment (like cabling and modem) as a potential cause of the issue and thus reasonably proving any fault into the network, you accept the risk of a callout fee if your equipment is found to be the cause of any fault.

    want to know why your RSP interprets it that way? because they are NBN's customer, so they get the callout fee if it happens, and then they have to pass it on you as their customer. they don't like doing that, because it makes them look like the bad guy, so they conveniently misrepresent it as an "NBN rule".

    anyone using a Telstra Wholesale supplied service gets exactly the same experience, because it's exactly the same situation, so the RSP behaves in exactly the same way.

    I provided the page numbers in the documents. what are you not able to locate specifically?
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018
  13. Rubberband

    Rubberband Member

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    That's really interesting as that is exactly what they told me NBN advised them to tell me.

    I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say I can't legally change the cabling in my house? Are you saying that it's illegal to get a cabler to replace the existing and redundant copper leading to the phone sockets with Cat6?

    I've had two instances where Telstra advised if they found the internal wiring of the house to be at fault, they would charge for the call out. I think we may not be using the same nomenclature. which might not be helping :)

    Cable to the node = NBN
    Cable from the node and terminated outside the house (NTD?) = NBN
    Cabling from the NTD inside my house = Me

    Now that's interesting and ABB just said they can't ask. I've clearly isolated the issue as being external to the house with dropouts occuring at a frequency which would indicate an issue.

    Found it, senior moment :D
     
  14. caspian

    caspian Member

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    then somewhere along the line any advice has turned into chinese whispers.

    you can past the first socket which is legally the network boundary point (in the absence of a couple of circumstances which are unlikely to apply to most people), although it still has to be done by an appropriately licenced technician as it will be connected to a telecomms carriage network. you cannot touch the cabling that comes in from the street to the first socket, no.

    internal cabling is anything past the network boundary point (which includes CPE from a potential-cause-of-fault point of view).

    there is no generally NTD for copper (if it was it would be a device on the outside of your house, do you actually have a box that says "NTD" on it), but substitute first socket for NTD and you are correct. if you do in fact have a passive NTD then the Telecommunications Act defines that as the network boundary point and all wiring past that point is yours, including that to the first socket.

    how have you isolated it as external to the house? and yes they can ask, they just have to accept the potential callout fee for doing so.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018
  15. Rubberband

    Rubberband Member

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    Okay, I think we're on the same page here. As I said previously, the new cable is inside the house, replacing the one used for the phones and installed by a licensed cabler, and I wouldn't expect anyone to start messing with anything coming into their property (although I'm sure there are some who would try).

    Well, NBN have finally been booked.

    Today has been horrendous with dropouts all day :(
     
  16. caspian

    caspian Member

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    has the modem actually been losing sync?
     
  17. Rubberband

    Rubberband Member

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    Yup, then it tries to resync.

    Sometimes the resync works (although apparently, my resync is slower than it should be), sometimes the router will just show it's trying to sync for ages (5 mins to 30 mins), other times, like today, it can't do whatever it needs to do to sync and the link light stays off for minutes then eventually it'll try syncing again (unless this is forced delay).

    Today has been extended periods of failure to sync with the sync light being off repeatedly.
     
  18. caspian

    caspian Member

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    should be easy enough to find.
     
  19. banshee

    banshee Member

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    I'm still waiting, for the cable to arrive, that is. It is supposed to be available from April in my area.

    The closest so far, is that I saw them pulling cable in about a kilometer away last week.

    On the plus side, it is getting closer. :)
     
  20. caspian

    caspian Member

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    depends where you are in the area, but the earliest availability date I can see for Springwood is July 2018, with most locations being October.
     

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