The Great Big NBN Sticky Thread

Discussion in 'Networking, Telephony & Internet' started by Akh-Horus, Dec 21, 2016.

  1. oculi

    oculi Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2004
    Messages:
    11,710

    And now it's back up again.

    Yeah I get that, I meant compared to the ping I had with ADSL. I didn't expect it to fix every problem I have, but I expected it to do everything better than the old "freeway"

    EDIT: according to whingepool speedtest isn't a good indicator of ping, might have to play some games or something.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
  2. caspian

    caspian Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    11,424
    Location:
    Melbourne
    there's no expectation that an NBN FTTN connection will improve latency. it's the same phone line, it gets a bit shorter but that's not significant - electrons move through copper at something like 285,000km per second, so chopping a few hundred metres of it off won't change your latency by a single millisecond. there's still a DSLAM, there's still a backhaul network, and once the connection gets to your ISP it's identical to your legacy connection.

    the FTTN network solves things like port shortages, incompatible pair gained lines, too-long lines, congested backhaul, and uses a DSL modulation with a far greater potential capacity than legacy DSL, but it's not magic. even a fibre connection would probably only drop that result by 1-2ms, because all you're replacing is the few hundred metres of copper and the modems at either end.
     
    kaine88 likes this.
  3. oculi

    oculi Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2004
    Messages:
    11,710
    Yeah I get all that, let me put it more simply.

    according to speedtest my ping was 13ms on ADSL

    according to speedtest my ping is now 40ms.

    I find this surprising, though after another few dropouts my provided has assured me that the connection should "fix itself" in the next day or so, maybe it will improve after this.

    And electrons move in the vicinity of milimetres per second through copper wire, but I know what you mean :)
     
  4. caspian

    caspian Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    11,424
    Location:
    Melbourne
    yes, but again - that's not because of the NBN part of your connection. if your RSP's CVC is congested, of if they route data from their NBN-delivered connections differently to their legacy ones, that will result in a different experience, but the NBN doesn't cause that.

    I doubt the connection will "fix itself", because the NBN VDSL2 runs seamless rate adaption both upstream and downstream, it doesn't just train down and stay there like legacy DSL. if the issue is due to intermittent impulsive noise or sudden changes in relatively permanent noise conditions then it needs the root cause located and removed, same if the issue is physical in nature.

    I know the point you're making about the speed of electrons versus the propagation speed of an electromagnetic field in a physical medium quite well, but the effect is what matterw in illustrating the point.
     
  5. alexc

    alexc Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2002
    Messages:
    1,662
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Hi Caspian,

    So new modem arrived from Internode TG-789vac V2.

    We have an improvement in upload speed! Yay! Hooray!

    [​IMG]


    and the Fritzbox 7490:

    [​IMG]


    So thats great! Upload speed is everything to me. Given I'm in a coexistance I guess thats it as far as NBN are concerned.

    Anything else I can do?

    How did the tech get 6MB down?

    Thanks for the help and information.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
  6. portstevo

    portstevo Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,047
    Location:
    Port Macquarie
    It could be. With the extra POIs the distance traveled could be greater. I know my connection now has to travel 200km away from the nearest data center before traveling back past in the opposite direction due to this.
     
  7. caspian

    caspian Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    11,424
    Location:
    Melbourne
    your pic is too small to read sorry, but that leaves wiring between the Luca box and the socket. going back to a previous post, the 6Mbps was upstream?

    the extra POIs would *lessen* latency, not increase it. anyone on the Telstra Wholesale network only has access to two "POIs" per state, which are within major metro areas. if you're in major metro then the distance differential compared to an NBN POI would be approaching nothing, and if you're outside major metro then chances are the NBN *decreases* your connectivity distance and frame delay to the network handoff point.

    there may indeed be some additional latency caused by where the data has to be transmitted to your RSP from there, but again - that's not within the NBN network.
     
  8. alexc

    alexc Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2002
    Messages:
    1,662
    Location:
    Adelaide
    My bad - I have embiggened them :)

    So yes - 6MB upstream:

    currently your modem is attaining a 18.7Mbps downstream and 1.1Mbps upstream. the tech ran a test with his modem connected (I can tell) and got 24.3Mbps down and 3.9Mbps up, and then another one showing 33.8Mbps down and 6Mbps up - I presume the latter was from the external block, thus isolating the internal bridge tap.​

    33.8/6 would be amazing! I've never had internet that fast :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
  9. caspian

    caspian Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    11,424
    Location:
    Melbourne
    at a not-at-work-and-had-a-couple-of-bourbons guess, your line is running out of usable bitloading short of the end of DS1 in the 998ade bandplan NBN uses, so the upstream is reliant on US0 only, which is good for about the 1Mbps you are seeing.

    the next step would be to revisit the internals. I know you sent me a pic showing the LIC connected to a CAT5e run, but it's losing a heck of a lot of response for a short run of decent UTP.
     
  10. portstevo

    portstevo Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,047
    Location:
    Port Macquarie
    So which RSP is going to have a data center and routing at every POI? None! I have a 400km shorter route to the capital city where the routing occurs with the Telstra model vs the NBN model. 50% of people will have latency added because of this design choice.
     
  11. caspian

    caspian Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    11,424
    Location:
    Melbourne
    of course not. but you are missing the point, I will illustrate:

    let's say you live in North Queensland.

    if you have a Telstra Wholesale ADSL service, your DSLAM will be homed on a BRAS in Brisbane - Charlotte St, Woolloongabba etc. the data path then goes to an IGR pair also located in Brisbane, and then off to your ISP's DC.

    if you have an NBN service, your DSLAM will be homed on a POI in somewhere like Cairns or Townsville. it then gets handed off to your ISP, who has to arrange for transit links to their DC... which will very likely pass through Brisbane along the way.

    so regardless of whether the distance from North Queensland to Brisbane is achieved inside the NBN network or outside it, there is no difference to the data path length and accompanying latency.

    you're in Port Macquarie according to your profile. that means your data path goes via Sydney (it's at layer 2, you can't see it), and then your ISP has to have connectivity from there to their DC. on the NBN network your POI is at Coffs Harbour... about 250km closer. if your ISP then backhauls from there to Sydney, there is no difference. if they take a more direct route to their DC, it's an improvement.

    it doesn't make it worse, unless your ISP chooses to access the local POI via a very indirect route.... in which case the additional latency resulting is, again, not within the NBN.
     
  12. portstevo

    portstevo Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,047
    Location:
    Port Macquarie
    Except Coffs is 200km in the wrong direction to get to Sydney, which makes the latency higher
     
  13. caspian

    caspian Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    11,424
    Location:
    Melbourne
    that depends on where your ISP's DC is. if it's in Brisbane, then the path is shorter.

    and to state it yet again, the latency is not within the NBN. the network wasn't designed around the location of your ISP's DC.
     
  14. Opticon

    Opticon Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    270
    Location:
    Perth, WA
    Signed up to Exetel last Friday, received the NBN FTTC modem and Exetel modem on Wednesday. Exetel said just plug it all in and 24hrs later it will start working. No surprise that nothing worked.

    Exetel are blaming NBN but won't tell me why and have booked a tech to come onsite on the 16th. So no internet until then, even though the NBN box has everything connected and shows all green/blue sync lights :(
     
  15. oculi

    oculi Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2004
    Messages:
    11,710
    So after speaking to them on the phone fliptv told me they can't raise a ticket against NBNco until I have more than 5 dropouts, so 5 more dropouts later they are going to have a look. The dude seemed to think the ping would get better too.
     
  16. caspian

    caspian Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    11,424
    Location:
    Melbourne
    methinks the dude was shining you on over that last one.

    hope they have tried stability mode for 24 hours (or 5 dropouts, whichever occurs first) or the ticket will get closed.
     
  17. Sleepyz7z

    Sleepyz7z Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2016
    Messages:
    32
    caspian, regarding those ISP nbn coverage checker things that estimate the potential FTTN speed of an address, how does the system arrive at said estimate? is it from some calculation of segment lengths from Telstra cable records or something?

    My curiosity is piqued from the low hopes of my estimate (21-50Mbps) which were in stark contrast to my modem reporting a max rate of 135 Mbps down.
     
  18. caspian

    caspian Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    11,424
    Location:
    Melbourne
    they're drawn from an NBN system that calculates it from a combination of cable length and type, plus other considerations like coexistence settings.

    the calculation tends to be conservative, but yours is obviously extreme. I haven't seen the tool return an incorrect result yet, the problem is the records are (in some cases badly) wrong, so GIGO. there's a project running to apply corrections to the records based on a number of inputs, one will be sampling data from connected lines like yours where the real-world data obviously supersedes what the records produce.
     
    Sleepyz7z likes this.
  19. BelowAverageIQ

    BelowAverageIQ Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2011
    Messages:
    859
    Anyone here gone down the Technology Choice Program path? Do you have a detailed quote that shows the cost of an FJL or Branch Multiport, please.

    We are connected to a node 1.5km away, but have active fibre running past the property (100m direct line) and fibre at NBN pits 450m away, which supplies another micro-node 600m away.

    We have been waiting for a micro-node to be installed to connect our street since June 2016. It was supposed to have been built again in June 2018, but this is now "possibly September 2018.

    I decided to request FTTH via the Technology Choice Program and paid my $660. NBN Co. Customer Delivery Specialist called me the other day and said it was going to cost $27,000+:tongue:

    The reason being is that the design team wanted to run more fibre, from the NODE 1.5km away, alongside the existing fibre, to the same pit, then my house.

    I dont believe I should pay for "more" fibre, when it already exists. I would thought it was possible to place a FJL or Branch Multiport in the pit 100m away, then fibre from there to my house. The pits have thick and thin fibre cable in them including rolled up in both pits.

    Not sure if the NBN design team, just looks at existing point of connection (1.5km) and works with that. I assume they would be extremely busy and not have the time or updated schematics to work with?

    Cheers.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2018
  20. alexc

    alexc Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2002
    Messages:
    1,662
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Just tagging on a question you might have looked into: Can you do it with your neighbours? Can the cost then be shared?
     

Share This Page

Advertisement: