The Great Big NBN Sticky Thread

Discussion in 'Networking, Telephony & Internet' started by Akh-Horus, Dec 21, 2016.

  1. caspian

    caspian Member

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    that's what was lost from the organisation - a sense of ownership. everyone I worked with treated the network like it was their own personal property, and looked after it as best they could.

    yeah, NPAMS was a lot like watching someone learn to ice skate or something. people skilled at it looked graceful, poised and effortless. people not so looked like learning to play the bagpipes, while the bagpipes are on fire. while learning to ice skate.

    Siebel, on the other hand, was like being briskly kicked in the nuts over and over with no idea why or how to stop it, while management stood around and continuously recited that it was a huge improvement. somehow. or so they'd told to say, anyway.

    fun times. :)
     
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  2. leighr

    leighr Member

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    Any love for the in-between period, custom written STS? Or didn't that make it much past front of house?
     
  3. caspian

    caspian Member

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    never heard of that one, had to google it. looks like it was a salesdroid system?
     
  4. leighr

    leighr Member

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    Yeah, call centre initially, then in stores. I think it was supposed to go further, but then someone sold them Siebel. Spoke to all the mainframes on whatever damn protocol they wanted.

    I'm slightly biased, sunk many years into that thing.
     
  5. supasaiyan

    supasaiyan Member

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    Siebel is one of the most unfriendly systems to navigate, all the old legacy apps were so much better to use. Hopefully, salesforce will be better
     
  6. caspian

    caspian Member

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    Telstra's implementation of Siebel is unfriendly because of the customisation and complexity Telstra built into it to accommodate all of the "stuff" they had accumulated over the years. the whole point of it (which came out of the Three Amigos Transformation Project) was supposed to be simplification and centralisation. the last time I saw it, my back-of-fag-packet estimate of the number of tabs, sub-tabs and sub-sub tabs it had was over 250. how anyone could possibly represent that as an improvement over a number of separate systems that did what they did pretty well, I have no idea.

    oh hang on, yes I do. it was suggested by a change consultant, who unsurprisingly justified their vastly overblown fee by recommending that a whole bunch of stuff get changed, whether it made anything better or not, and then pissed off to the next gig leaving the business to sort out the resulting disaster. I've since encountered the same set of peabrains in other circumstances, and that time I was in a position to tell them to fuck off sideways.

    I'd had a chance to look at the Vodafone implementation of Siebel, which is reportedly pretty much out-of-box. the difference is night and day.

    I have only had a brief look at Salesforce, hopefully for their own sake Telstra will resist the urge to do the same again. the recent product simplification should help.
     
  7. BelowAverageIQ

    BelowAverageIQ Member

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    My god, I would like to be in that position one day. I think it is getting worse in most industries as executive management try and justify their bullshit salaries.
     
  8. cvidler

    cvidler Member

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    all those big CRM (+ other stuff) tools are the same (Siebel, SAP, salesforce etc), a framework rather than a product, so customisable really gives the customers (the business) a great opportunity to really fuck things up - especially if they're the type that just has to change settings*, if there's a setting we must change it.

    The ones that resist changing things, or instead change business practice to meet the flows the software expects end up doing much better than those that customise the fuck outta the software usually ending up spending millions taking decades and never getting anything actually done.

    *if you're going to do that, just go buy a database product and develop a front end for it, that'll work the same and probably be cheaper. database licenses are much cheaper than enterprise CRM licenses.
     
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  9. TheWedgie

    TheWedgie Insert Custom Title Here

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    I have a vague recollection, but think I only used it for random sales orders, possibly whilst covering in Unwelcome Calls. Most of which I remember doing directly in Flexcab and MICA.
     
  10. Kow

    Kow Member

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    The pair thing literally just happened to my connection in September went i reported my adsl with constant DC's and 1mbit sync. The dude just took another pair.
     
  11. daehenoc

    daehenoc Member

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    I've landed in (b) a few times, and I can testify that the start of anything that looks like (b) was a train wreck from the start... Oh well :(
     
  12. caspian

    caspian Member

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    most projects start out with good intentions. let's do x and achieve y which will improve z.

    then it all goes to shit.
    project managers, business analysts, deployment managers, process and tech writers and training needs analysts get engaged.
    in a week, the mailing list looks like a listing of half the fucking company, and every time someone punches the "reply all" button the company mail server lags and produces a cloud of smoke for about 10 minutes, because you all needed to see that 50MB powerpoint with one edit from the last time you saw it. and the time before that. and when you provided feedback on it. and at the launch meeting, and the week after that at the showcase. don't worry, you'll see it again at the mandatory weekly meeting.
    requirements time. everyone sticks their oar in with a bunch of fundamentally contradictory requirements that instantly turn the project into a something that looks like a hydra fighting a rabid can of worms off. all of these requirements are utterly mandatory, if any are not met all life on the planet will cease to exist.
    after weeks of distilling this toxic hot mess down to something that is the IT equivalent of the elephant's foot (google it), everyone agrees it represents their collective needs and off it goes to be costed.
    the result will turn out to be approximately four times what manglement budgeted for it two years ago. when told this recently, my response was "that's fine, who's telling manglement they fucked up when they pulled that number out of their collective arses two years before they actually asked someone who knows what they're doing what is needed?". the reply was "well, you've got to put something in the budget!". I said "yeah fine, but you also need to be prepared to accept you've fucked up big time when your theory doesn't define reality, don't you?".
    this is of course not an outcome that will ever fly, and so begins the Roman gladiatorial process of flaying the hide, then the flesh, and finally the muscles themselves off the project to attain a state farcically called "minimum viable product". the vicious infighting that occurs between groups vying for the same scarce resources makes the nastiest GoT fight every screened look calm in comparison. I've learned to be reasonably serene about it after some practice, whenever I'm asked if I can do without something I just say sure. then I list what can't and won't happen without it, and that I'm happy for them to cripple the project to whatever degree they see fit - I'm just not going to be able to make things happen with nothing. their call what they cut.
    when the larger pools of blood are mopped up and the corpses of the dead stacked for later burning, the ragged remains are handed over to IT for implementation.
    we'll gloss over the shitfight that this entails and skip straight to the acceptance testing. oh boy, the acceptance testing.
    for starters, you'd think that there would be an environment to test in that mimics the real world reasonably well, with test data to chew on and interfaces that are close enough to tell from a user perspective if the thing works or not.
    nah.
    at best you get to spend a couple of days to a week beating a totally fucked up test environment into the absolute minimum spec that might support what you're doing. a bunch of functionality is missing, which you're asked to assume is there, in a total contradiction of the concept of testing the fucking thing too see if, you know, it works or not. most of it of course doesn't work, so you spent the rest of the week raising defects, along with how you got there, how to replicate the error, screenshots of the error, and written justification of why it has to be fixed. I generally find the latter pretty easy, I just put down that the project is already so far beyond barebones minimum functionality that even if it works PERFECTLY it's still almost a waste of time and money even bothering, so yes I want the fucking thing fixed, please.
    project managers now start to wee in their pants, partly because the IT costs to fix what they fucked up in the first place are skyrocketing (strangely, the project has to pay for what they got wrong somehow), but more importantly - THEIR PROJECT TIMELINE MIGHT NOT BE MET. HOLY SHITBALLS. their answer to this is to begin badgering people to downgrade defects to the point where the project can launch with them just to make someone's precious Agile board look green, which requires the users to accept a workaround that won't get fixed for months if ever.
    I've now played this game a few times, and the solution is not to let the fuckers off the hook, because once that box that says 'delivered' is ticked, everyone shoots through for a few beers and the team who are responsible for using the malfunctioning dead cat that was chucked over the wall are expected to deliver on it. there will be all sorts of persuasive talk offered about how "it's just one workaround", and surely you can live with that? /bats_eyelids. NO. because what the pricks conveniently forget it that EVERY SINGLE PROJECT that comes along ends up like this. it NEVER works properly, and the team gets stuck with a bunch of crap workarounds and broken functionality for months or years. it might be just one *more* workaround, but it's current workaround 100 as far as the team are concerned, and that's not acceptable.

    fast forward a couple of months of infighting.

    some of the ugliest hacks seen by man have been delivered to finally launch the project six months and a couple of million dollars late, and it's still riddled with minor bugs that will only get cleaned up in a major release six months from now. new bugs will then be introduced to take their place, and sometimes old bugs resurrected for reuse.

    does anyone learn from this? FUCK NO. we all do it again the next time, and the time after that, because the manglement in charge of making decisions move on every couple of years, thus dooming the process to failure, while the people who have any hope of making it actually work are burnt out and jaded by the repetition of utterly obvious and inevitable but avoidable failure.

    anyone who doubts this is real should go an read the B&EC subforum for a bit.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
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  13. fredhoon

    fredhoon Member

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    De Ja vu, I haven't been back to work yet be after reading that my nervous twitch has returned. I'm not looking forward to later this week when I return to the office, meeting with IT and other pats of the business for our 2nd round of flaying the hide.
     
  14. [AFX]Northy

    [AFX]Northy Member

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    I thought I would post an update to this, After waiting the 48hrs and calling up again I was put through to a nice chap (overseas call center still) who actually knew what he was doing, Turns out that if a modem is ordered from Telstra as part of an NBN connection request their system will not close off the order as being complete until they can see the TELSTRA MODEM connected and online. After plugging the Telstra modem in things started to move faster, The order was able to be redone and the connection came back up on the 28th of December.

    It has taken untill yesterday to have the premium speed boost to be activated so I can finally say I am back to where I was on the 13th of December last year. The level of total incompetence at Telstra is staggering and the only thing that saves them is their sheer size.

    I am yet to remove the Telstra modem and put my own back in due to the fear of what they might choose to do if their precious white box isn't detected.....
     
  15. caspian

    caspian Member

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    Telstra must be waiting for their device to call home from a TR.069 perspective. they've done similar things in the past, to trigger the completion of the order and the start of the billing cycle only once they know the connection is working.
     
  16. bcann

    bcann Member

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    HMMMM I can see a multitude of ways i could abuse that ;)
     
  17. caspian

    caspian Member

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    that would require you to know the unique details of the device they've preregistered against the account, and the authentication would need to come from the line assigned to the service, which is only identified by a metadata tag that the NBN network inserts.

    probably possible, but not to much profit.
     
  18. evilasdeath

    evilasdeath Member

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    Oh man an't that the truth.

    Standing your ground on issues is a skill in itself and hoping you have a manager that also has some balls.

    It brings me a great deal of pleasure when you get that one issue that NEEDs to be fixed and you get the support all the way up the chain because its easy enough to explain the program team threatens you to budge, the product manager and you watch them suffer and have to fix it.
     
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  19. caspian

    caspian Member

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    that's a good reason for picking your arguments carefully, and only going to war when its truly necessary.

    what's funny is when the dispute goes up the chain to GM level, and your GM delegates you to attend the meeting on their behalf. :D
     
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  20. disguisey

    disguisey Member

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    it is done, turns out it was incorrectly service classed as well so no cut in required (It was alreayd done during buidl).

    10 minutes later and we are up!

    caspian: Just wanted to say thanks again for your help in getting it sorted.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
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