The Great Big NBN Sticky Thread

Discussion in 'Networking, Telephony & Internet' started by Akh-Horus, Dec 21, 2016.

  1. caspian

    caspian Member

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    there never have been 100Mbps wireless plans. the equipment in use does not support that speed. the fastest ever offered was 50/20. that is being with withdrawn as of mid-December, and replaced with a new speed tier called Wireless Plus which went live at the end of June. that offers a best-effort initial maximum speed of 60/20Mbps, changing to 75/10Mbps at the end of March 2020. there is no change to the target demographic.
     
  2. callan

    callan Member

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    I don't think the NBN really know how to salvage Fixed Wireless, and this is perhaps just another thought-bubble. Given the conflicting, impossible remit by their Government overlords FW has been jammed into far to many places where it simply doesn't fit (Like major city metro infill), and the entirely predictable ascendance of streaming services drove the last nail in the coffin of FW as a credible consistent domestic service. Hilarious amounts of money would fix it, of course but that's just not gunna happen. So any proposal (not that I've personally seen any, source plz) to give the plan speeds a haircut is merely acknowledging reality. I do feel for the NBN engineers and planners. No engineer likes building an unsatisfactory solution, and the REALLY hate doing so when they know how things should, and could be done. I know many are predicting the imminent arrival of 5G as some non-NBN panacea that will eat NBN's lunch - but personally I don't think that will happen for quite. some. time. - and when it does it will still be a case of location roulette.

    Another thought-experiment, the proposal to restructure 100/40 to 110/20 has some logic to it. For the vast majority of residential retail applications 20mbit is plenty. I don't know the engineering impacts (how spectrum is reassigned in HFC and FTTN), nor what impact that would have to CVC pricing or allocation - but it has some sense to it from the end user perspective. (It could also be a cynical ploy to force retail NBN resellers to buy %10 more CVC :p )

    Personally it doesn't suit me - for reasons that have contributed to the decision to lash out on a technology choice move to FTTP - but I suspect that my Internet usage and expectation is hardly a typical retail domestic case.

    Callan
     
  3. caspian

    caspian Member

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    unfortunately, I agree that chucking considerable amounts of money at the issue is the only solution at this point. as Bill Morrow said to Senate Estimates back in May last year, providing 100Mbps wireless would cost multiple billions of dollars. unless the government wants fund it, it's going to be aligned with the SOE and that's it.

    regarding the engineering, I don't think there's the depth of feeling you might think. very few things in the world get engineered without price being a factor, so engineering the best solution possible within a budget is an everyday reality. if that budget changes, so does the solution. in any case, this seems to be more of a marketing decision than an engineering one to me.

    re the proposed 100/20 service (where someone got 110 from I have no idea), if they think that making 100/40 a business grade service with business grade costs will induce an already price-reluctant public to pay more then I don't hold out much hope. I do have a sneaky suspicion for the driver but it's nothing to do with CVC.

    as for 5G, I will believe when I see it. 4G can already potentially deliver a user experience better than the NBN, it doesn't because of business decisions on the part of the network operators as to what it costs to do so versus what it can be sold for. 5G does not solve that issue, if anything it makes it worse.
     
  4. Perko

    Perko Member

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    I'm fine with that, if I wanted anything more than 50Mbps I'd be happy to look at tech choice.

    I guess the question is, what's cheaper out of pushing the tech upgrades on the towers, pulling low hanging fruit onto some sort of fixed line, or a combination of the two.

    Is it even possible to reallocate people to FTTN or similar if they've already got FW prior to the initial build completion?
     
  5. caspian

    caspian Member

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    when the government decides they want to do it, and fund it, the question will be answered. until then the current solution meets the government's statement of expectations and is an end state.

    no reason FTTN could not be done, the same as any technology. one blocker is that NBN has not contracted with Telstra to acquire ownership of the local copper in anything other than planned FTTN areas. as with many things, it's just a matter of having money to throw at the solution.
     
  6. Hater

    Hater Member

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    8 days later

    still nothing
     
  7. Slug69

    Slug69 Member

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    I have NBN via HFC. Telstra is my provider and I have "Speedboost" pack activated. Speeds are consistently 96/36.

    I hate Telstra, not because they are expensive but mainly because their call centres are overseas and their procedures for handling calls and implementing changes is woeful. I was forced to wait on the phone for allmost 25 minutes just to get speedboost activation applied to my account. This should have taken 2 minutes after giving my ID.

    I use the NBN modem bridged to my Ubiquiti Router 4. Then WAN to my 24port HP switch, with the Telstra "Smart Modem" connected on one VLAN to this HP switch so I can have phone service (Telstra Smartmodem has the phone ports - it performs no other duties other than this) for wifi I use an access point.

    Everything has been working fine - am just waiting for more and more people to connect on the street to slow me down...

    I wonder how fair dinkum the ISP's and NBN are about moving to Docsis 3.1 full speeds?
     
  8. caspian

    caspian Member

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    unless something has changed that I am not aware of, the use of DOCSIS 3.1 will initially be to improve capacity at the local cable segment level and avoid congestion and the need for node splits. there is no plan to release gigabit HFC services as yet.
     
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  9. Slug69

    Slug69 Member

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    What a shame. How difficult is it to arrange asymmetric speeds for a customer so a business on the same node can get 100down and 200 up? (If Docsis 3.1 was served)
     
  10. callan

    callan Member

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    Man, this shit got old a long time ago...
    Just got this...
    So phone out again all day, and we're back on Wireless. Get your shit together, guys. :mad::mad::mad:

    Yes, I remember reading about this about a year ago.
    The impending collision between additional spectrum not being released from Foxtel until ??2024??, and increased uptake of the NBN increasing congestion must be terrifying for NBN planners - and doing things properly like physically segmenting the network correctly requires money and time - neither of which they have if they've to have any chance of pretending the network is finished "on time". Far better to just crimp it's capability and hope people won't notice.

    Sorry to be negative, Caspian - you get a far too much of it, quite unfairly - but HFC' is little more than a shit-sandwich placeholder to drag the NBN over the line until it can be flogged - and whoever buys it will have ZERO motivation to plough capital investment into it, leaving it to rot like the old Optus HFC network did.

    I've read something about some old Foxtel surge-protectors not having the requisite frequency standards for Docsis 3.1 -anyone heard anything about this???

    Callan
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  11. cvidler

    cvidler Member

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    I bet you'd complain too, if they never did maintenance/upgrades and shit broke all the time.

    NBN (and the electrical grid, and water, and <insert any other service here>) is not a uptime rated service, if uptime is critical for you, you need to plan options (wireless as you say). You can't expect zero downtime, so can't really complain about it.
     
  12. Perko

    Perko Member

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    I look forward to getting them in case it's a cell upgrade, I got this one the other day that is different to any we've had before:

    Given how bad the congestion has been for the last week, it's the last roll of the dice before I start looking at bad value 4G plans from the other guys:/
     
  13. callan

    callan Member

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    8 hour outage, 18 hours notice, third outage this month. I'd wager this will kill foxtel, too. I'm a patient man who understands maintenance if a necessary evil (for old crap like HFC) but I reckon I'm right to be snarky.
    I AM doing something about it btw .. I have a wireless failover in place - motivated by the entrenched unreliability of the service, and I'm lashing out over 11grand to replace it with fibre.

    But I shouldn't have to.

    Callan
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  14. Quadbox

    Quadbox Member

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    Here was me thinking the thing killing Foxtel was its unsustainable business model :p
     
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  15. Perko

    Perko Member

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    The GoT model?
     
  16. caspian

    caspian Member

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    I'm not a HFC person, but my understanding is that every modem on the segment needs to run the same bandplan (that's DSL terminology, but close enough) because they're all on the same layer 1 network segment.

    2023 to my knowledge, plenty of water to go under the bridge before then. I presume DOCSIS 3.1 is planned to provide the alleviation in the meantime, I believe node splits are quite expensive in terms of not just equipment and manpower, but the IT to support the segmentation. in the meantime though, the network just has to support the government SOE.

    I have no direct knowledge, but given they backed away from using it well before DOCSI 3.1 just at the overlay frequencies they needed to coexist with the Optus services during handover, I'd say it was worse even than that. the only good thing I've ever heard about that network was that the nodes had battery backup.
     
  17. Slug69

    Slug69 Member

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    It just goes to show how fucking stupid it was to veer off the Fibre only route. Malcom Turnbull et al should all be tied behind the back of a B-double and dragged around the country. What a bunch of low life dogs. The money wasted and our futures being slowed down by this munted "25Mb/s is all you will need" view.
     
  18. BuD

    BuD Member

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    Hfc will roll a long for a while when gbit comes out at unsustainable pricing but everything will need to eventually go fibre which is what should have happened to begin with. Once rollout done they will go back and start fttc,fttn areas with the option for you to pay to fibre the lead in
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
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  19. Slug69

    Slug69 Member

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    This is the hilarious part about this whole HFC saga. They did in ground lead-ins for HFC anyway. (Especially in Optus areas) I have a brand new NBN Lead in for my HFC connection alongside my phone line and above those two is my Optus Cable connection...

    It was supposed to save money. In reality, it was to delay the death of Foxtel.
     
  20. BuD

    BuD Member

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    yes i also reckon they were using it to try keep foxtel going. after all they are mates lol
    funny thing is with fiber they wouldnt have had to dig so many new trenches as there would have been a lot more existing conduit they would have been able to get it through
    hfc pcds have also ended up in some total nonsense locations on a house that have required some very expensive private tech work for internal cabling. real dumb shit like a townhouse complex and 2 pcds against unit 1 which means unit 2 needs permissions to access roof of ceiling 1 and also to go through firewalls ect
     
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