1. OCAU Merchandise is available! Check out our 20th Anniversary Mugs, Classic Logo Shirts and much more! Discussion in this thread.
    Dismiss Notice

The Great Big NBN Sticky Thread

Discussion in 'Networking, Telephony & Internet' started by Akh-Horus, Dec 21, 2016.

  1. th3_hawk

    th3_hawk Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2005
    Messages:
    2,581
    Location:
    Kilsyth 3137
    Our internet went out this afternoon so I stuck my head out the door to see a technician working in the pit a couple of doors up. I walked up to say hi and see what's going on.
    So, we only had NBN FTTC become available in May 2020 so presumably the equipment in the pit is about that age. Turns out the box is failing (although we haven't noticed any issues at our house) and was being replaced.
    I've seen this pit open a couple of times now in that period and it's (seemingly) permanently full of water too and while I'm assured it's all rated for that environment... well... Stuff fails sometimes for no reason, but it does make you wonder a little.

    Photo for funsies:
    [​IMG]
     
    alexc likes this.
  2. caspian

    caspian Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    12,277
    Location:
    Melbourne
    looks pretty normal to me. the field isn't a pretty, sterile place. so is water in pits normal. they're not intended to be watertight - they are actually made with holes in them.
     
  3. caspian

    caspian Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    12,277
    Location:
    Melbourne
    people asked and complained and clamoured for it, so OK - CVC as a chargeable cost concept is going. it will remain as a part of the network construct because I'm not sure how that would be practically removed now.

    I'm pretty sure most people don't actually realise the implications of that, but they will no doubt come out once the RSP industry figures out how they want to implement the changes from a service pricing point of view.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
  4. bucket23

    bucket23 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    Messages:
    130
    Any word when NBN will be releasing to the media?
     
  5. caspian

    caspian Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    12,277
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I'm not sure they will. they will release to their customers, the RSPs.
     
  6. bucket23

    bucket23 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    Messages:
    130
    Thanks for replying.not sure if it will make a difference. I don’t know enough to fully understand the situation.
     
  7. caspian

    caspian Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    12,277
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I predict less and different than many people think.

    from the RSP industry the criticism of CVC charges seems to be mostly around variability in cost, and while I understand that, that is a problem largely of their own making through offering unlimited data plans and gambling on average usage per user on a month to month basis. where it challenges the RSP is that they have to do it for every CVC, for every POI, and that could easily equate to 1000+ CVCs nationally. so moving to something like a flat per-service monthly charge (and I'm not saying that is what is happening! it's just one option) gives them certainty - at least at the NBN level. they still have to worry about internal and peering costs, but it's a big factor out of the equation for them.

    the average end user, to my perception, simplistically sees CVC costs as something that adds to their monthly service charge. so they equate "removal of CVC charges" with "I get my service cheaper". well maybe, maybe not. the problem there is that NBN's operating costs don't change. and NBN has been told by the government to run at a return-on-investment rate of costs+ROI%=what they need to charge overall, so removing a charge from one component of a service just means it has to be moved somewhere else. so if, to use simple numbers as an illustration, the wholesale cost to an RSP of a given service is $50pm + $5 AVC charges, a flat rate charge just results in a $55pm cost. nothing changes for the end user.

    what Joe End User might expect on the basis of the simplistic reporting on the subject is that the $5pm attributable to CVC should go away, but that's simply not possible. the cost of providing still continues, and NBN can't - by government guidance - just eat it. I'll draw a comparison to the former "naked DSL" plans offered over Telstra's old copper network, that were advertised by the ISP industry as "no phone line charges!!", but then ended up more expensive than a comparative service delivered over a phone line where there was an active POTS service. because Telstra weren't going to maintain that copper pair for free, so they charged a ULL fee for it, which the ISP bundled into the plan price where you couldn't identify it as an individual charge. (for the pedants, yes the result was cheaper - because there was no actual POTS service to support. the purpose of an analogy is to draw a comparison for illustrative purposes, not replicate the situation exactly. get over it.)

    so what does it actually mean for those playing along at home? I think the biggest guidance on that will come when it actually happens and the RSPs figure out how to change the pricing construct in line with a relatively stable fixed-cost-per-user charge. things I think will happen as a result:

    - the change will benefit big RSPs more than small ones, because averages work better as your sample size pool increases. so smaller boutique RSPs might be disadvantaged.
    - it limits the original intent of RSPs to be able to differentiate their retail product through having control of their CVC contention ratio. so the RSPs that differentiate themselves on the basis of price (i.e. the bottom end of the market) may not welcome this, because it makes one of their main input costs the same as their competitors, and there goes a chunk of their marketability.
    - RSPs are going to have to look at users on a given speed tier on a more homogeneous basis, because that's how they are going to be charged by NBN. do they try to work that on averages? isn't that just the same issue they had before, via a different vector? or do do they again try to control user behaviour by reintroducing data allowances, or maybe dynamic shaping inside their own network? because you can be sure that they're not going to fund a free-for-all for the end users either.

    will be interested to see how this plays out. given the total cost pool is not going to change, for every winner there must be a loser in terms of who pays for this. some people are not going to be happy to be on the "paying" side for what I suspect will mostly amount to an effort in simplification at the expense of a reduction in relevance.

    some reading on the subject that may or may not be representative of the actual changes here:

    https://www.itnews.com.au/news/nbn-co-makes-spirited-defence-of-cvc-and-its-cost-to-date-568335

    https://www.itnews.com.au/news/nbn-...-in-depth-consideration-to-keeping-cvc-571808
     
    callan likes this.
  8. Audionut

    Audionut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,415
    Location:
    4610
    Damien from Launtel was against the removal of CVC. Said it only suited the big players.

    Might increase the NNI (VNNI) charge I guess, over and above the likely AVC increase..
     
  9. caspian

    caspian Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    12,277
    Location:
    Melbourne
    smart man.

    the charge will have to go somewhere, but doing at the NNI level would punish RSPs that run a better CVC contention ratio, i.e. less services per NNI. so it punishes the RSPs that choose to offer a higher quality retail service. moving it to the service charge makes more sense to me at the wholesale level, and RSPs can then differentiate their offerings by bundled data allowance. not everyone needs or wants to pay for unlimited data, and I doubt they will be interested in subsidising the data usage of power users.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2021
    fredhoon likes this.
  10. ashcollector

    ashcollector Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2019
    Messages:
    291
    Location:
    4127
    Anyone know who to talk to about an Optus hfc leadin that is sagging low?

    I submitted a request on the Optus website, no response after 2 weeks.

    Do nbn look after this and I contacted the wrong people?
     
  11. caspian

    caspian Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    12,277
    Location:
    Melbourne
    other than a single small area NBN never took ownership of the Optus HFC plant. it remains in the ownership of Optus so they are the only people that can deal with it.
     
    ashcollector likes this.
  12. tobes

    tobes Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2001
    Messages:
    4,185
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Is your NBN getting delivered over it or is it just old Infra? If its old I certainly wouldn't advocate just snipping it at your house and coiling it on the street post.
     
  13. ashcollector

    ashcollector Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2019
    Messages:
    291
    Location:
    4127
    Nar, over Telstra hfc.

    I would like them to also remove the Optus box and wiring at the same time thats on the house. My ladder isnt big enough for me to get up that high safely anyway.

    I have already removed the wiring to near the box as far as I can reach.
     
  14. tobes

    tobes Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2001
    Messages:
    4,185
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I think you have SFA chance of getting them to come out and do that. I have both running out of my place at the moment but can't figure out which wire to cut...
     
  15. caspian

    caspian Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    12,277
    Location:
    Melbourne
  16. Ratzz

    Ratzz Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2013
    Messages:
    10,494
    Location:
    Cheltenham East 3192
    The red one. It's always the red one.
     
  17. Audionut

    Audionut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,415
    Location:
    4610
    Ratzz likes this.
  18. tobes

    tobes Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2001
    Messages:
    4,185
    Location:
    Melbourne
  19. alexc

    alexc Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2002
    Messages:
    1,841
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Great News!

    A few telco workers are out front planning an 'upgrade' to my area.

    So I casually asked them what the go was...

    Apparently they are just upgrading it to 'thicker copper'.

    Far out - more copper in the ground! I thought we were past that already!
     
  20. micsway123

    micsway123 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2020
    Messages:
    1,043
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Superloop outage on my NBN FTC connection since Friday, apparently they (nbn) are investigating, contemplating churning over the Aussie in the hope they might be quicker to get me back online, any advice here?

    ride it out or switch?
     

Share This Page

Advertisement: