The morals of Mining Crypto, Gamers vs Miners, general angst about crypto thread.

Discussion in 'Blockchain & Cryptocurrency Mining' started by Slug69, Apr 6, 2021.

  1. Slug69

    Slug69 Member

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    Creating this because of what has come up in the Crazy video card pricing thread.

    Power usage by mining crypto? In an Australian summer it is probably a terrible thing to do, even if you have solar. Winter is a different story.

    Does anything need to change?
     
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  2. adamsleath

    adamsleath Member

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    ...based on the stats of people who actually have any. it (crypto) is a niche investment.

    eg. estimates for u.s. americans who actually have any of it is around 22 million and of those the averaged per capita holding is around 5k usd.

    storing excess wealth in a 'commodity' and linking the generation of such electronically generated units from hashpower/compute-power hardware and energy usage? meh. it's a good lark for nvidia/others and electrical power peddlers i suppose.

    certainly has proven to be a/n highly inflatable asset :lol: versus fiat currency.

    total market cap is approaching 2 trillion USD. it would be interesting to know what the 'cost of infrastructure and energy' to maintain/generate it has been since inception. on a per unit of value basis.
    ---

    compared with:
    https://siblisresearch.com/data/us-stock-market-value/

    i had to google what comes after trillion....apparently it is quadrillion. :p o, it follows the bi, tri, quad, quin, etc prefices. :rolleyes:

    ...so if the math is right. 2 divided by 49 (49.107 trillion) is ~4%
    ie. global market cap of crypto is ~/= 4% of the total market cap of the u.s. stock market?
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
  3. Symon

    Symon Castigat ridendo mores

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    I really don't see the point of crypto mining. I fold instead, sure I don't get paid for it, but the PC is mostly on during the day when the solar is doing its thing and I'm contributing to something tangible that actually is doing some good for the world.

    I can't say I've seen anything come out of crypto currency that has been a net benefit to the world at large. It is however really good at contributing to e-waste and lining the pockets of those that create products that ends up becoming e-waste.

    If there was some sponsored version of Folding@Home or something like it to pay you to crunch data for them then I'd gladly get behind it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
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  4. Sunder

    Sunder Member

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    On a very different scale. The unplayed games waste, what, a few watts of power to download, or a few grams of plastic on a DVD?

    Bitcoin alone (excluding all other crypto coins) is estimated to be using 0.6% of the world's power supply for 1 million transactions a day. To put that in perspective, Visa alone does that in about 9 minutes, presumably with much less power.

    The thing is, the energy consumed is nothing more than a race. It's like if Visa said "okay, we're going to pay a data centre to host all our records, but we're offering only a fixed fee. We'll pay that fee to whoever can do laps around our data centre the fastest. Oh and if you guys start getting too fast, we'll make you do it with sandbags in the boot". And now everyone is wasting petrol trying to be the first one to do the lap.

    Terrible analogy, I know, but hopefully it gets the point out, that the proof of work is arbitrary waste of resources, not an inherent part of Crypto. If Bitcoin alone was shut down now, it would be like Australia halved its emissions, or Sri Lanka ceased to exist.
     
  5. adamsleath

    adamsleath Member

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    can that real cost/overhead of crypto be compared to other 'value generating' assets in terms of resources and energy though? some of those might be much worse. (subjectively or objectively)

    the question of ethical investments is open imo. and what attributes exactly constitutes/comprises them.

    also ethics is up to the individual to discern. or fund managers....
    ===

    if you are being paid to play video games, or make them. that is the comparison just mentioned. and gamers and game makers are using up less resources and energy than crypto miners. right i think i got the message. :p
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
  6. dirkmirk

    dirkmirk Member

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    The biggest issue for Bitcoin there are alternatives that dont waste as much resources.

    its like bitcoin is still hunting whales for oil whilst newer techniques is drilling for crude.
     
  7. walker_2003

    walker_2003 Member

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    If Australia halved its emissions the impact on global temperatures would be minuscule. We make up 1% of c02 currently.
     
  8. Sunder

    Sunder Member

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    As they say, no snowflake ever feels responsible for causing an avalanche. Just like China, the world's largest emitter of CO2 can justifiably say "Those Australians are emitting double the CO2 per capita we are, why should we make any efforts that cost us money or lower our quality of life until they do?"
     
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  9. OP
    OP
    Slug69

    Slug69 Member

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    One benefit is people are allowed to transfer money far cheaper than using a wire service. Companies like Western Union and practically all banks charge an arm and a leg to transfer money. It was practically free to transfer money back in the 70's until these crooks decided to make money out of it.

    Thanks to massive immigration between countries in the last 50 years remittance payments are an important source of income for many families across the globe. Using crypto is a safe, cheap, and fast way to get monies to far flung family members.
     
  10. fad

    fad Member

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    I think the promises of what crypto was meant to be has been lost. However it is far cheaper to transfer money to other countries in fees.

    How much does Visa or MasterCard use in energy to allow similar payments around the world? I am not talking just the data centres but also the people and infrastructure to allow it. Sure it’s not the amount of power running BTC but it would be significant.

    It is not free to transfer money and it’s not instant, which is why there are so many coins trying to fix the different issues.

    It has however democratically shared the payments to allow such a transaction. No longer is one company and one CEO getting all the rewards for every transaction on the network.

    Is a few video cards and a few bucks a day different or more worth it compared to global data centres and some one on $50m a year.
     
  11. Mac-Pro

    Mac-Pro Member

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    If you did REALLY wanted to do good, you could have invested years ago and used those investments now to fund medical research in billions.

    Crypto is just a vehicle, what you do with it is up to you.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
  12. Symon

    Symon Castigat ridendo mores

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    So which medical ward is named after you?
     
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  13. Tinian

    Tinian Member

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    It costs me nothing to transfer money with my bank.
    Vastly less. As I explained to someone else who claimed bitcoin uses one third the power of the current financial system; Cap of bitcoin is what, a trillion dollars? Last year in response to covid-19 resulted in a $24 trillion surge in global debt according to the IIF.
     
  14. whatdoesthisdo

    whatdoesthisdo Member

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    Oh well if that's the case with you, then surely all other people on this planet must have the exact same luxury. :lol:

    Yes and while I couldn't be bothered pointing out your fallacy then, I will now. Bitcoin's power consumption doesn't increase based on the market cap. It could 100x now and still have the same energy consumption
     
  15. Tinian

    Tinian Member

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    People are free to change banks. No excuse for people in Australia to transfer money at cost.
    But it's not a fallacy. We're dealing with it's market capitalisation and power requirements now, not your imagination of what it might be worth at some point in time. Let alone the power requirements of mining other cryptos now and in the future.
     
  16. Snoops

    Snoops Member

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    Please provide me a link to a bank offering free international transfers?
     
  17. RP_Automotive

    RP_Automotive Member

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    I think we're talking about international transfers here, obviously anyone who pays for local transfers is an idiot.
     
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  18. walker_2003

    walker_2003 Member

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    I wonder what percentage of crypto users are using manual wallets for transfers.. I'd imagine a heap use exchanges with online wallets for simplicity and are paying fees to send money to family.
     
  19. Snoops

    Snoops Member

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    Not as many as you would think.. Bitcoin ATM's are hugely popular in some countries.
    The fee's some exchanges charge to withdraw certain coins is crazy though.. The pricing seems to based on the coins value back in 2015.
     
  20. RnR

    RnR Member

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    Folk are losing their bank accounts due to crypto transactions in Australia. How does foreign banks treat crypto transactions?
     

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