The morals of Mining Crypto, Gamers vs Miners, general angst about crypto thread.

Discussion in 'Blockchain & Cryptocurrency Mining' started by Slug69, Apr 6, 2021.

  1. Sunder

    Sunder Member

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    Unlike other pollutants which can remain fairly localised, CO2 diffuses throughout the world. While the difference in outdoor city air between Friday afternoon and Monday morning can be up to 10% difference, when you average out over months and years, the whole world is lifting pretty evenly.
     
  2. adamsleath

    adamsleath Member

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    yeh. just like all the wildlife choking on tonnes of plastics. who gives a shit.
     
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  3. Matthew kane

    Matthew kane Member

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    I wouldn't call it a true currency, trading commodity yes but currency, no. If i knew what I know now that this crap would spin off thanks to SR than I would've given a crap enough to keep mining when bitcoin was doable on the cpu and I still cared enough to retain the 30 odd bitcoins over 10 years ago.

    Its rising popularity is only because of a new age of money laundering process whilst doing so anonymously and extremely hard track.
     
  4. Mac-Pro

    Mac-Pro Member

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    It's a lot more than that, like not having your funds stolen each time the government prints more money and debases the currency. You may not care about it as we're quite fortunate, but I'm sure people like in turkey, argentina, venusella, brazil, and lebanon care about it. Our currency is not invincible and all good things will come to an end someday. US just recently printed $1.9T for covid relief. That's more than the entire AUD monetary system. It's going to have a massive impact around the world.

    Bitcoin can't print more coins, it's algorithmically capped at 21m coins, so the currency can't be debased.

    It's not controlled by a trusted 3rd party, you are in full control of it.

    It works 24/7, there is no market closing price. It is traded at all ours, all public holidays, it does not rest.

    Funds are transferred in a short amount of time anywhere around the world. There is no waiting 3-5 business days.

    It can not be confescated if you control your own bitcoin wallet. In greece, they confescated the citizens fiat money and forced a buy in to the banks.

    These are just a few benefits of bitcoin and why institutions and companies are holding bitcoin. Bitcoin was designed to solve many problems after the mortgage sub prime fisasco in 2009
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
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  5. r3s

    r3s Member

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    Not entirely true, you aren't in control of bitcoin 1 bit ( pun intended )

    Most of the mining output is in China, if they change their policy and ban bitcoin and the hashrate drops significantly those resources could potentially be merged to create a 51% attack.
     
  6. Sunder

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    For now. You know that Australia already has laws that allows the governor general to force the population to hand in any currency based gold (i.e. basically anything not jewelry) in exchange for fiat?

    If Australia ever got to the point where Greece was - that is, fiat and gold can be seized, what makes you think they won't just change the law to include Bitcoin too?

    Sure, you could just pretend you don't own a bitcoin wallet, just like you can pretend you don't own any gold bullion, or don't keep a few grand of emergency fiat money, and there's a chance you'd get away with it. But if you don't, all 3 are on equal footing, right?
     
  7. dirkmirk

    dirkmirk Member

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    Argentinians have been Using USD for years it's still king, are you saying the USD is about to "collapse" and have no purchasing power......?

    Okay I'm no expert on Greece but just maybe they should have their own currency to weaken against the Euro...

    It's like some people can't accept the fact that some countries economies have been mismanaged and gone down the toilet like Argentina artificially imposing import and export tariffs that prevent free market trade, that's why the Peso is so weak Australia might be similar if we still had some protectionist policies from the 70s.

    Same with Venezuela and Zimbabwe crypto anyone who bought foreign assets, gold, USD would've been safe from the hyperinflation just because Bitcoin has done better doesn't make fiat a bad thing either.

    Unless Australia was invaded and had your house seized by a foreign power that House still retains value just like the real estate in Buenos Aires in USD.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  8. Mac-Pro

    Mac-Pro Member

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    Can you please explain the process for them to get your bitcoin?
     
  9. Sunder

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    Same as they would for gold. Demand it. If you claim you don't have any, they back off. But now it's stuck as Bitcoin. If you try to use an exchange, you get busted. So, you can maybe buy drugs, weapons, child porn or a Tesla with it? Edit: no, sorry, Tesla would create a paper trail too. I guess if other eRetailers sold other importable goods with Bitcoin, you could do that?

    Guess you could try an overseas exchange, but that still creates a paper trail.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  10. adamsleath

    adamsleath Member

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    this gets old.

    pouring fiat into assets, debases the value of the currency. ever think of that? of course you did. any price inflated asset you own that has a liquidatable price that moves over and above cpi is debasing the currency.

    your unit of measure is fiat. prices of the assets or other 'value units' are relative to the fiat currency. and vice versa. maybe einstein's theory of relativity should have included beans and their relative worth.

    you know what a BTC is worth to me? Zero. not even half a moldy sausage. that's because i do not want any BTC.

    geddit?

    if BTC became the predominant medium of exchange. then fiat would become the cryptocurrency, or whatever other currency scam is dreamt up for investors to ponzi up.

    but i see this has a dimension of jealousy attached versus the government who can simply conjure earth credits into existence ex nihilo to exchange for real goods and services.

    what a jip!
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  11. MrSnuffy

    MrSnuffy Member

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    • Court order to seize your assets
    • Implemented in countries where the majority of nodes reside
    • Nodes are now faced with the choice to follow the request of the law, or not
    Say you're operating a significant block finding node. You have $ sums that have 9 figures invested in this ... are you going to be a good citizen and comply with the request of your government? ... or are you going to say "whatcha goin' do gumbit?". If the govt want to push it, then you won't be running your node, simple.

    There are only a relatively small number of block finding nodes.... it's extremely hard for them to hide their location, or who they are.


    People rarely understand that the above is one of key purposes of proof of work .... as opposed to merely "securing the chain" from rewrite (which could have been done other ways).

    The last sentence of the bitcoin paper:


    The idea that bitcoin is a system where rules like laws couldn't ever be enforced .... is anarchist bs. Governments will figure it out in their time.

    Of course, all of the above said... it's likely going to need to be a significant thing for government to act against someone. Until they put any required cooperation/infrastructure in place, for things like that (ie. asset seizures).

    That will terrify people.... although as a electronic cash (focussed on the micropayments side), I don't think it's such a big deal.

    For the "digital gold, store of value" and "code is law" retards.... then I can see, it would be very unwelcome.

    They do not necessarily need to demand it from you. ;)

    Authorities can freeze assets that are alleged stolen, and can even seize assets by force ... if the majority of nodes will comply.

    Satoshi:
    Could be very disruptive.... but if node and service operators are sophisticated, then it does not need to compromise the network completely, or permanently.

    It is expensive to continue an attack... and makes no sense to continue one which is not being effective.


    People building node implementations and services running on the bitcoin protocol have put a lot of thought into how it could play out. It can be disruptive for sure... but double spending is much harder than it sounds when nodes will watch out for it (which they will when they are highly competitive, as it is a clear edge to winning the block).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 12, 2021
  12. Mac-Pro

    Mac-Pro Member

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    Rasonable, still can't get bitcoin. If you don't have the seed phrase written down and it's memorised, what are they going to do?
    LOLS, anyone can run a node and no country has more than 51% of the nodes, plus the government has no juristriction over another country's citizen.
    Here's a set of instructions on how to run a bitcoin node off a raspberry pi - Click here
    Here is the number of bitcoin nodes around the world by country - Click here
    How is the Australian government going to order Jane Doe to stop running their node in Germany? LOLs at the Australian government trying to do a 51% attack by enforcing australian law. Can you hear how insane you are? and you can't rewrite verified blocks. lols it's in the bitcoin white paper.

    I believe you're referring to a bitcoin mining farm with a node. You know you can buy bitcoin right? Mining is not the only method of obtaining it. The scenario you presented while possible, does not apply to the majority of the people on planet earth. Not even 0.01%

    You should reread the bitcoin white paper. I understand you probably won't as it doesn't fit with your agenda.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
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  13. Sunder

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    Really, the whole idea of the Australian government trying to seize gold, let alone fiat, let alone Bitcoin is a bit laughable. It started off with a ridiculous premise, and just went downhill from there.
     
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  14. Mac-Pro

    Mac-Pro Member

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    It's a lot easier just to print more money lols
     
  15. MrSnuffy

    MrSnuffy Member

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    Last edited: Apr 13, 2021
  16. Myne_h

    Myne_h Member

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    If every gamer fired up their card when they weren't playing, the hash rates would skyrocket, driving profitability through the floor, and taking out a decent chunk off the demand for cards.

    A gamer can lose money in power bills and not really give a shit.
    A miner has to cough up.

    LPT: IF you're a gamer and you don't like miners, join em - and encourage others to do the same.

    Clock your card down. Way down. Whatever. You're not in it for profit. Keep that puppy running even when it's losing a few cents an hour. Somewhere, someone's losing hundreds, considering not buying more, and if it keeps up: liquidating.

    That's the primary and secondary markets both affected.
    New card demand drops, second hand supply increases.

    Get 50,000,000 gamers to do it and in a month you'll see everyone bitching about profitability.
     
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  17. Elchupacabraj

    Elchupacabraj Member

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    Viva la revolution :lol:
     
  18. r3s

    r3s Member

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    Next minute those gamers see the gains and start buying more at scalper prices for easy money... lol
     
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  19. Myne_h

    Myne_h Member

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    Not if it catches on. It'll be pennies a day, payback predicted in years.

    Let's face it. Gamers outnumber miners by a fucktonne. 50 million gamers would crush earnings - and there's at least a hundred million more than that.
     
  20. adamsleath

    adamsleath Member

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    thought occurs you could set up a bunch of bogus shared compute power projects and funnel it into your own BTC mining op.
    :D

    absolutely fraudulent idea though. not a recommendation.

    i believe Troy got rich because of its position on the trade routes from the east to europe across the hellespont. that sort of thing.
     

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