my bad, i didnt mean to offend anyone, and please excuse my sweeping generalisation. I can see what you mean, either of my ordinary colour shots above would still be ordinary in B & W. its the "I took a black and white photo of a lawn chair" type shots i want to avoid. B & W portraits can be very emotive, same with some landscape and object shots. at the moment however i'd rather learn proper colour methods, identifying lighting and what f/stop, shutter speed to use etc so that i can apply all that to my digital shots as well. I only picked up photography six months ago so i have a lot to learn .