The OCAU "film is not dead" club

Discussion in 'Photography & Video' started by onrelas, Feb 9, 2008.

  1. holdennutta

    holdennutta Member

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    Okay, interesting! I'll find some of my Kodak shots and post em up. I'll try to get an example of a lab scan and one of my own scans. Cheers!
     
  2. holdennutta

    holdennutta Member

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    Unfortunately I couldn't find similar subject matter for a lab scan and a self scan.

    [​IMG]F100_Ultramax400 by HN, on Flickr
    This is a lab scan.

    [​IMG]F100_Ultramax400 by HN, on Flickr
    This is developed by the same lab and scanned by me with Silverfast and a Plustek Optifilm 8200Ai.

    To my eye they both seem a little too brownish? Especially the image of the bridge and the plants in the foreground. I *think* the image of my daughter is underexposed a tad perhaps which won't help the colours (sorry, tonez?) a whole lot.

    Here's a third one, 6x7 this time. Ektar 100:
    [​IMG]Pentax_Ektar by HN, on Flickr

    Self scanned on Epson V850 Pro. Dev by same lab at the previous ones. Again the foreground foliage seems really brown. Yet in the far back there is a crop that's quite saturated green? It was shot a while ago now though so I'm having trouble remembering just what I thought was inaccurate. Was def surprised how it turned out though.


    My technique is generally scanning in Silverfast and selecting the film stock for Negafix and then only making slight adjustments to exposure and using the auto colour cast correction.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2021
  3. Bion1c

    Bion1c Member

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    a few thoughts:

    image #1:
    To me this actually seems like a really good scan for ultramax. Consumer film from any brand is never going to be particularly accurate; it has its own style. In this case the skin tones are a bit warm (typical kodak), but the colour of the clothing and car seat looks good. Noise/grain is quite low too. It doesn't look under exposed to me.


    image #2:
    Yep agree it looks like a lot of red/orange coming through. I think you could definitely improve the colour by adjusting it in silverfast but it probably won't be 'perfect'.
    I think that overcast light is not working with the ektar film.

    For a bit of context have a read of these articles on shooting ektar:
    https://carmencitafilmlab.com/kodak-ektar-film/
    https://shootitwithfilm.com/how-to-shoot-kodak-ektar-100/
    https://medium.com/the-grain/the-vibrant-contrasty-glory-of-ektar-100-1e50a7527851

    Have a look at the samples that you like, and then consider what do they have in common in terms of lighting? Mostly i think Ektar looks good shot in warm bright sun

    image #3:
    This is a bit more of a tricky one. The lighting seems a touch cool but ok. The colour on the right side in warm sun seem pretty close. The sections in foreground and on the left do seem quite red/brown.
    I think to start with it needs a bit of adjustment in scanning software. This is one of those frames where the auto mode in the scanner wasn't that successful. There are many ways to adjust colour, but my preferred way to do global adjustments is to adjust the midpoint of the R/G/B levels.
    Looking at the brighter areas on the right, you might want to try removing a bit of red (which adds cyan), then try adding a bit of yellow (removing blue). You need to play around a bit to see what works.

    In this frame the areas that look most problematic are in the darker areas and shadows. The film might be a bit under exposed. If so, you could be getting muddy colours that you would really be able to correct easily (to be technical the colour response is not bright enough to be in the linear region of the film curve for that colour layer). So you could try to recover it by making an adjustment that targets shadows, but next time give it some more light*

    * can't say for sure its under exposed without seeing raw histogram of the negative but it looks that way

    I also find ektar to be a pretty tricky film. I haven't had much success with it in 35mm, i find the red really overpowering. But on 120 it hasnt been as much of a problem. I've taken some nice frames with it, but i was careful to use it under warm sunlight.

    Hopefully that helps. Just one opinion, but should give you some ideas to think about :)
     
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  4. holdennutta

    holdennutta Member

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    Damn - this is actually the first one I had on Kodak that wasn't Portra branded and my immediate reaction was that I reaaaaally disliked it.
    This is one of the things I enjoy about film. I like that the film dictates the look of an image to an extent.
    Was a dawn shot - but yeah, super overcast! I'll have a read of those links, thanks. Judging by that quote though I was trying to use it out of its comfort zone. Dawn AND overcast :(

    If I recall this was just before sunset. Sun was almost directly behind. Mostly clear day. Perhaps given the colours being inconsistent across the frame may have something to do with non homogenous lighting as the sun was probably at this stage juuuust starting to go behind some tall trees.
    I'll try this next time I'm scanning.
    I may actually need to think about reading some colour theory also... My day job is 100% greyscale :p
    Thanks! I appreciate the insight. I'll have a read and maybe shoot another roll before I write it off all Kodak films that don't start with a P ;)
     
  5. Deftone2k

    Deftone2k In the Darkroom

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    I really love Ektar, I was always pushed towards Velvia but just never really hit it off for me. I really enjoy Ektar for the colour saturation and flexibility you get with it. I don't often shoot 35mm these days mind.

    Having said that, the colour shifts with it depending on the light and if you under/over exposed can be quite a lot. For many when you are photographing people the reds are a bit too much, but I like the punchiness of it. A lot of the time it just comes down to taste/preference in understanding the film and then also if you are scanning it yourself. It takes quite a while to get to know a film, so you are on the right track if you are exploring films but do remember to stick to a couple of stocks to get them right.

    Few of my favourite ektar frames (different lighting). I usually rate Ektar at 80 when I am shooting it.

    Makina 67 // Ektar // SP3000 Scan
    [​IMG]

    Mamiya RZ67 with the 50 // Ektar// SP3000 Scan
    [​IMG]

    Mamiya RZ67 with the 50 + CPL // Ektar // SP3000 Scan
    [​IMG]

    Yashica 124g // Ektar // SP3000 Scan
    [​IMG]

    Fuji G617 // Ektar // Epson v700 Scan
    [​IMG]

    Makina 67 // Ektar // SP3000 Scan
    [​IMG]

    Canon 1n // Ektar // SP3000 Scan
    [​IMG]

    Mamiya RZ67 with the 110mm // Ektar // Epson v700 Scan
    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Bion1c

    Bion1c Member

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    Thanks for posting these - much better examples than i have to show :)

    Wow the Makina 67 really does well doesn't it

    When you were scanning these, did you find the colour correction difficult? Or was it quite straightforward when it was shot in suitable light?

    That last shot with the water looks like the light was quite cool. Did you have any issues with red/brown tones in the ektar?

    cheers
     
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  7. Deftone2k

    Deftone2k In the Darkroom

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    The Makina is by far my favourite but I have also had so many issues with the winder/frame spacing over the years as the cost of shooting has gone up.. it has become more and more frustrating to shoot.

    Colour correction not always the easiest with ektar it really depends on how you shoot it. If I underexposed it gets very magenta quickly. I also shot a lot of expired ektar which didnt help the cause. I always found the underlying red/magenta to be much easier as you said in good light. Over exposing or under rating when metering definitely helped this. It's why I switched to metering at ISO50/80 for if I am forgetful.

    Last shot is a great example of it in not great light. I mean I loved the mood of it but it was a cold/overcast sunrise that day and there was no colour to play with. I had over exposed the frame a bit with the longer exposure and you can still see the underlying magenta in the shadows. I think I scanned that like 8 years ago tho so memory... haha

    Definitely an interesting film, the latitude in it is just awesome. Not for everyone though :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2021
  8. holdennutta

    holdennutta Member

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    Well shit. I'm just doing Ektar wrong... Those images are lovely :)

    I don't dislike any of those images colours at all. I will persist (I bought a box of the shit ha...) and try to find some more well lit and interesting subjects.
    Thanks for posting them!
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2021
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  9. Deftone2k

    Deftone2k In the Darkroom

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    Glad it is of help :) Just be persistent, it can be a frustrating endeavour the old film but when you get it right.. boy is it marvellous.

    I put everything into one flickr album so there are more examples here - https://www.flickr.com/photos/defty/albums/72157627491753005

    You will see a lot of my earlier scans are heavy on the magenta! Especially sunrise/sunset shots where I was balancing exposures with the fast changing light and often under exposing.
     
  10. holdennutta

    holdennutta Member

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  11. Bion1c

    Bion1c Member

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    I'm surprised by this - given that 400H is the main stock for analog wedding shooters, i thought it would be the last one fuji would drop.

    I was going to stock up, but it sold out worldwide seemingly within minutes :(

    For 120, it should be like acros where they resupply a few times. So if you want some, put in a pre-order somewhere and store it in the freezer. should last a few years
     
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  12. holdennutta

    holdennutta Member

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    The endangered animal they make it from must have finally gone extinct...

    I thought I got in in time and snagged 10x 35mm rolls of it from Walkens but they reckon I didn’t. Was only up on dp review at the time and not any other blog or Facebook group. So I’m suss on that.
    They gave me free shipping on the rest of my order though.
    49C8B194-A814-430E-A72D-7D0D4BC71F01.jpeg

    I guess I am required to go shoot some petrol station forecourts at night now eh?
     
  13. Bion1c

    Bion1c Member

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    hehe yep better get out to those petrol stations. enjoy the red highlights :p

    I had a look through my film stash last night and have some 120 400H in there. Probably enough without buying more.

    if you're desperate to get some 400H let me know. i can put you in touch with a guy in japan who sends film over. single roll of 35mm was about $21 + shipping though, so not cheap!
     
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