Trying to get back up to speed

Discussion in 'Intel x86 CPUs and chipsets' started by Fabrian, Mar 11, 2018.

  1. Fabrian

    Fabrian Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2003
    Messages:
    251
    Location:
    Long Island,NY,USA
    Hello all,

    I've been away from keeping track of the progession of things for a few years now. Life just gets in the way.. I'm trying to get myself back up to speed on everything that's changed since the last rig I built in my sig. I want to build a new machine and am beginning to research. What's the current recommended chipset/processor these days? CPU's are now broken up into consumer or enthusiast? WTH happened..

    I don't expect anyone to write a book about things I can find, I was just hoping I could get a bit of help. Maybe some input or suggestions, recommended links?

    Thanks for any help you can provide.
     
  2. ayles

    ayles Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2005
    Messages:
    499
    Multi threaded work or gaming or neither?
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Fabrian

    Fabrian Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2003
    Messages:
    251
    Location:
    Long Island,NY,USA
    I primarily render heavy Photoshop and Lightroom image files. The occasional video conversion. I would like to play a game or two again but not what the machines primary function is.
     
  4. bcann

    bcann Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2006
    Messages:
    4,970
    Location:
    NSW
    that is generally less cpu bound and photoshop/lightroom if you have it use GPU acceleration as its WAAAAAAAAAYYYYY faster then cpu acceleration.

    For the misses (Does photography) we have a:

    Mid range I5, 7500 (Cpu is very low use)
    32GB Ram (Would be 64 if the damn prices didn't shoot through the roof last year)
    Nvidia 1070
    512GB Samsung 960 Pro NVME (4TB Backup drive as a secondary backup for critical stuff from our server)
    and a nice Dell 27" 4K Monitor.

    Compared to the last box we had which was approaching 5 years old before this upgrade, transforms that used to take up to 15 minutes now take 30-45 seconds.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
  5. power

    power Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Messages:
    53,986
    Location:
    brisbane
    this guy, look for applications that leverage the GPU for rendering.
     
  6. Datsun 1600

    Datsun 1600 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2003
    Messages:
    2,037
    Location:
    Sydney 2165
    With new chipsets from Intel and the second chipset for AMD's Ryzen due in the next month or so, along with new CPU's, waiting and seeing how it all settles would be a good idea.
     
    l_ QuadX_l likes this.
  7. bcann

    bcann Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2006
    Messages:
    4,970
    Location:
    NSW
    again given he will be a photoshop/lightroom bunny, i'd invest the money in a good GPU/RAM/NVME M.2, rather then pay the high price for some nice new shiny mobo/cpu which will make 1/10 of SFA difference to photoshop/lightroom.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
    ayles likes this.
  8. OP
    OP
    Fabrian

    Fabrian Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2003
    Messages:
    251
    Location:
    Long Island,NY,USA
    What I'm trying to get caught up on is some of the things that have changed, not what apps use what hardware. I see a bunch of current cpu sockets, criteria and limitations with all. Different SSD interfaces and form factors - now there's M.2 and Optane? Consumer VS enthusiast CPU's - Raw horsepower for gaming and twin turbo for everone else? Companies have come and gone. What motherboard brands are on top now? Still Asus? Seems like a lot has changed. Gigabyte was always good, seems still. EVGA is up there now? Who's on top for RAM? The last system I built was pretty much the beginning of custom liquid cooling. Now it's consumer mainstream. These are some of the things that I'm trying to catch up on. Any info you guys can provide would be greatly appreciated. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough in my first post.

    Thank you. This is something I was wondering. It was the same the last time I built a rig - right on the heels of new hardware.
     
  9. miicah

    miicah Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2010
    Messages:
    5,261
    Location:
    Brisbane, QLD
    Optane is just Intels 3D NAND.

    M.2 is just a form factor. NVMe is the next "version" of SSD and are extremely quick, but eat up some bandwidth that you would use for a graphics card.

    RAM is pretty much the same, unless you are on AMD and then you want the fastest RAM possible.
     
  10. bcann

    bcann Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2006
    Messages:
    4,970
    Location:
    NSW
    given the high price of ram and GPU's there is *Dons flame proof suit* little difference on a price per bang basis between most of them excluding AMD for RAM. if you want to pay 1.5 times as much for 2-5% gain go for it, but its not worth it in my book for your use case.

    Personally the bargains to be had if you want to wait would be in my book Samsung 960 Pro's when their 970 brothers come out and samsung want to clear stock.

    Like i said i'd go a mid range CPU (I5/Whatever AMD's mid range is)
    Samsung 500GB 960 pro (Is sweet spot for price at the moment)
    32GB RAM (More if you can afford it)
    Nvidia 1070 or maybe even 1070ti (If you can afford it, damn crypto miners made price still high)
    Some kind of spinning rust 4-8TB for backups + External backup.

    Optane for the *MOST* part is only useful if you have old spinning rust/slow ssd, given its meager capacity/high price point.

    I'd be less concerned about NVME and bandwidth unless you plug in shitloads of USB3/3.1/c and are sucking in huge bandwidth through them AND smashing your GPU.

    With brands, well whatever your poison happens to be, when it comes to GPU's and RAM, particuarly GPU's given thermal constraints there is little between them in my view again on a cost per dollar as opposed to ref, i'm sure i'll get flamed being an overclockers forums, but cost per dollar doesn't show it for me as opposed to ref designs and the current still high pricing due to crypto miners.

    *shrugs shoulders* Take from that what you will....
     
    miicah likes this.
  11. Datsun 1600

    Datsun 1600 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2003
    Messages:
    2,037
    Location:
    Sydney 2165
    For me:

    The VRM's on the Motherboard is what I look for as well as the heatsinks on them.
    A down blowing CPU cooler for cooling the VRM's and M.2 drive if it is just below the CPU socket.
    If the M.2 slot is under the first PCI-E card slot, I pass if I am running a blower cooler on the GPU, very little cooling as the M.2 NVME drives do get hot.
    Forget Optane.
     
  12. OP
    OP
    Fabrian

    Fabrian Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2003
    Messages:
    251
    Location:
    Long Island,NY,USA
    Thanks for the replies fellas.

    I thought i7 has more throughput than i5? Or is that where you're talking about the small percentage in bang for buck? Then there's i9. I'm slowly catching up on reading as time allows. Back in the day some 15 year ago I was an overclocking madman (speaking of, what happened to seeing tons of posts from Chainbolt?). I'm sure I'll play again, but I do care more about stability these days than squeezing out a few numbers. Having said that, is there still combos that overclock better than others or has everything balanced out? What kits are you guys using for liquid cooling? Surely there's a way to cool down those M.2 drives?

    I have a ton of questions but don't want to be one of those people. Still, I'll take any info you guys can provide. I'm going to keep researching and not be a lazy efer.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  13. HobartTas

    HobartTas Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2006
    Messages:
    672
    Overclocking is not really needed so much these days given we have multicore CPU's and I have overclocked in the past but that was to get the single threaded games like BF2 and BF2142 to play well, stability is a given if you don't overclock at all. Cooling the CPU's is a lot easier now as they consume less power so you can't go wrong installing a good twin tower air cooler like a Noctua NH-D15. Do you really need to use M.2 drives when a regular Samsung EVO or PRO will do the job almost as well with no overheating problems?

    My gaming PC's have progressed from Q6600 > I7-920/X58 > I7-4930K/X79 and I don't really know what my next one will be but its going to be either a top of the range mainstream cpu like the 8700K or alternatively a server grade motherboard with a Xeon cpu for the following reasons.

    (1) I9's in Socket 2066 and AMD's TR4 are overkill for most users because for gamers all the action is pretty much in the video card and the CPU doesn't matter so much. The 6C/12T 8700K is the best all round CPU for this aspect and the next 9700K is reputed to be a 8C/16T chip anyway so how much more do you need? If your rendering all day long as part of your job from 9 to 5 then yes 2066/TR4/Xeons for more cores is the way to go otherwise its not useful for all other general usage, also do you want to pay $1K+ for those I9 CPU's which don't even support ECC like Xeon's do?

    (2) SLI doesn't really work for BF1 so well (if at all) so my next video card will just be a single high end one so a mainstream or server board will still be acceptable and I don't have to care if SLI never works again.

    (3) Intel has blocked off using low end Xeon's in 2066 boards so there will be no more versions like my "workstation" X79S-UP5 motherboard using the server grade C606 chipset which is an upgrade to the regular X79 and also has nice enhancements like 8 SAS/SATA ports on top of the regular 6 SATAs (means I can run a 10 drive Raid-Z2 array with no additional hardware). Why have they done this you may ask? Well to get 40 PCI-e lanes you need to get at least a $1.3K 7900X as the 7820K only has 28, whereas every Xeon for that socket has the full 40, so you can see why I'm also interested in a (non-SLI) server motherboard and Xeon CPU instead as well as considering a vanilla mainstream option especially if you want to run VM's later on and also use ECC memory.
     
  14. power

    power Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Messages:
    53,986
    Location:
    brisbane
    i'm sitting on my Ivy Bridge and 1080Ti waiting for RAM prices to get sane, GPU prices to do the same and Intel to fix Meltdown and Spectre properly.

    it feels like a bad time to buy - buy a used system IMO.

    Shit, I'd nearly recommend Ryzen - only nearly lolol
     
  15. OP
    OP
    Fabrian

    Fabrian Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2003
    Messages:
    251
    Location:
    Long Island,NY,USA
    Thanks. Why do you say forget Optane?

    Things have definitely changed since my last build. So.. there's mainstream, enthusiast and now server boards to consider? All having different sockets and chipsets? I mean, I see what you're saying about using that workstation chipset that appears to natively support server level RAID, but I guess the question then is really: Aside RAID, why would you use a Xeon vs a 6 or 8 core cpu? Why consider a server board at all if something like an 8700K is a good multi-tasker?

    Someone said there's a new chipset or socket coming?

    I think by the time I get myself back up to speed and understand everything I've missed, pricess will most likely be.. different. lol :D

    AMD used to seem like the dark side, but now it seems like an entirely different language. (don't take this the wrong way, but) Is AMD really a solid and reliable option now? Are they no longer quirky and less reliable than Intel platforms? Holy shit.. such a headache. I've never fallen this far behind :(
     
  16. Gonadman2

    Gonadman2 Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,245
    Location:
    Perth
    I picked up a Ryzen system mid last year as an upgrade over the i5 2500 system I'd had for a few years previous. From a solid/stability standpoint they're both the same, but the Ryzen CPU stomp's on the i5 for the CAD work and Video Rendering I've been doing. I guess the 8700K would probably be a good option too, but I tend to have my systems for a while and more cores is going to be better in 3-5 years time.
     
  17. power

    power Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Messages:
    53,986
    Location:
    brisbane
  18. bcann

    bcann Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2006
    Messages:
    4,970
    Location:
    NSW

    You seem to be concentrating heavily on CPU, like has been said quite heavily by me and others, for what you specify you want to use it for, GPU NOT CPU is where to look at, save your bucks on the CPU and invest it in the GPU.
     
  19. OP
    OP
    Fabrian

    Fabrian Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2003
    Messages:
    251
    Location:
    Long Island,NY,USA
    I'm concentrating on all of it. As I said, I'm trying to get myself up to speed on all things that have changed in the last several years. While I understand that GPU is more of a priority for image processing, CPU does play a role there as well and running Adobe, Capture One, Exposure, etc. isn't the only work done. I do plan to add some gaming back again and do appreciate quick file conversions.

    I used to know everything there was to know back in the day. I'm just trying to get back to that level before I buy anything.
     
  20. bcann

    bcann Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2006
    Messages:
    4,970
    Location:
    NSW
    Given most I5's (If your an intel guy) are quad core (Maybe minus the HT depending on model) CPU power is far less an issue that in days gone by, in fact they are generally so fast, that unless you buy a celeron/pentium, even low level I3's are generally more then powerful enough for most things. Hell even most games are more GPU bound then CPU bound nowadays.
     

Share This Page