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Ubuntu 22.04 Jammy Jellyfish

Discussion in 'Other Operating Systems' started by GumbyNoTalent, Mar 13, 2022.

  1. munchkin1

    munchkin1 Member

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    Is ubuntu some sort of meme? Setting up a spare PC to use for NVR/presence detection/face recognition...thought ubuntu was meant to be the peasants easy-mode linux?
    I have barely touched any linux aside from pi for years, and coming back to it, it seems completely borked. The learning curve is too high, there are far too many quirks, and it's insanely slow (far slower than windows) which is the opposite of how it was many years ago? (granted, I only tried ubuntu, in the basic full desktop install)
    System is 'old' but I would have expected more than enough: i7 4770, 8gb ram, radeon R9 280x, sata ssd

    - It took me around 3 hours of raging and googling just to install an AMD graphics driver and manage to boot into a non-blank screen. Literally immediately following the first-restart post install, I booted to no display. Took long enough to find I had to add nomodeset to get display and then much googling to get it working, required manual editing of files and crap ('blacklist radeon' etc), any non-nerd has already thrown in the towel at this point
    - it is obscenely slow. It's literally slower than my raspberry pi in terms of general OS usage and opening basic apps like web browser. This is absolutely horrific for user experience, it is many orders of magnitude slower than windows 10/11 on the same hardware. My initial googling on this suggests it may be due to some 'snap' package distribution scheme. No matter what benefits it brings the crippling death speed is totally unbearable. I'm sure it's fixable but I'm also sure it'll take several more hours screwing around to figure out...

    I'll persist because I just want it as a headless server and I guess once I get docker running I'll be OK. Just shocked at what a nightmarish experience it was just to get this running, especially after getting used to modern windows that 'just works' (drivers etc) and doesn't take 5 seconds just to open firefox. The 'out of the box' experience is absolutely disgusting, and I (perhaps incorrectly?) thought ubuntu was meant to be good in that regard.

    It literally feels like it has gone backwards significantly since I last used it a decade or so ago... :/

    I did find this while googling which put me back in a good mood, exactly the same as my reactions:
    https://akashicseer.com/rants/ubuntu-20-slow-and-freezes-often/
    Lol..Yeah, exactly my feeling :(
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2022
  2. flu!d

    flu!d Never perfect, always genuine

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    Every time I've used Ubuntu, AMD hardware has been supported out of the box using the open source drivers (which are the one's you want to use). Ubuntu isn't peasant Linux, Arch based distro's like Manjaro are simply popular with the transitioning Windows crowd as they seem to be able to get their heads around the AUR better that they can get their heads around a PPA.

    I will say I'm not overly keen on Ubuntu's forceful use of Snaps.

    Having said that, there are plenty of *buntu based alternatives available.
     
  3. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    AMD GPUs are supported out of the box. You shouldn't be installing third party drivers for these. The supplied kernel+drivers should work as is. If the Live image installer works, then the version you install to disk works too.

    I suspect your speed issues are the accelerated desktop breaking because of whatever third party drivers you installed.

    99% of Linux frustration I see comes from people assuming Linux is like Windows and needs endless third party driver installs. Most of the time it doesn't.

    The newest Ubuntu is now defaulting to Wayland graphics. If that black screens on you, perhaps try falling back to legacy X11. But there definitely should be no need for third party drivers with AMD hardware.

    But again, the GUI installer uses the same code/drivers/graphics as the desktop install. If the installer worked, that means you don't need weird drivers on your desktop.

    Indeed. There are literally thousands of distros. If people are that upset by snap, change distros. Open source is about personal choice, so exercise your right to yours.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2022
    flu!d likes this.
  4. ernie

    ernie Member

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    I tried 22.04 as soon as it came out last month. The Snaps were too annoying to put up with, especially since the original apps were removed from the apt repo. eg. Firefox. After a few days I erased 22.04 and installed the testing branch of Debian 12 instead, it's also running Gnome 42, so it will look quite familiar to Ubuntu users. It has a cool feature under the hood, that is Pipewire instead of Pulseaudio, very important to me because I do a bit of MIDI music creation, and Pulseaudio causes a few hundred ms lag between hitting a note on the keyboard and hearing the sound, which is a show stopper to me.

    So, if you are not happy with Ubuntu 22.04 snaps, but you are savvy enough to go with a testing branch of a distro, try Debian 12 (Bookworm).

    - Ernie.
     
  5. munchkin1

    munchkin1 Member

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    Perhaps 'most' AMD GPU or modern AMD GPU are supported out of the box - certainly mine is not (at least the default driver settings leave you with no display out), while googling this was also evident - tons of people with the same issue with this card and a few others around this era, and tons of posts where they were given useless 'advice' ...took a while to find what actually worked.

    This surprised me as whilst it is somewhat old it's not ancient or exotic by means (R9 280x). Literally the out of the box experience was first boot post-install straight to no display. And once I get display, opening firefox on a fresh OS with SSD takes several seconds, as does opening just about anything.

    I can accept that perhaps I didn't pick a good distro for my desires, actually main reasons I went ubuntu over debian was reading 'includes closed source drivers for better out of the box support'
    Anyway as mentioned, it's a spare PC, it's for a non-urgent hobby project, I'm sure with some effort it can be made to run well. I'm just shocked that such effort is required to make it not run like an absolute pig :)
     
  6. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Did it work in the Live image installer?

    I still suspect it's all Xorg vs Wayland issue, not a driver issue. I've heard that Ubuntu have reverted the default windowing system to Xorg for that reason in revised installer versions.

    Yes, this is a result of not having an accelerated driver. It's a symptom, not a cause.
     
  7. cvidler

    cvidler Member

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    what's confusing me, is why he's installing a GUI when the goal is a headless docker server?

    I don't go building a concrete bunker first when I want a greenhouse.
     
    GumbyNoTalent likes this.
  8. munchkin1

    munchkin1 Member

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    Because
    a) I'm a noob, wanted to get it up and running with a gui and direct input first before moving it to my rack
    b) curiosity about how a modern distro is as a basic desktop OS nowadays

    Yes the live installer worked with display (albeit 1024x768 or something...same way it 'worked' when I used nomodeset just to get display). It then broke immediately on reboot at end of install, hence the horrific out of the box experience, immediately broken with no display out is not a good first impression
     
  9. flu!d

    flu!d Never perfect, always genuine

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    Ubuntu Mate would have to be one of my fav xbuntu based distro's. I ran Ubuntu Mate for years without a single issue.
     
  10. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Agreed. But to their defense, trying to test every video card on planet Earth is quite an enormous task for a company that isn't Microsoft/Apple levels of wealthy.

    If you can be stuffed, I'd advise not fiddling with drivers, and instead look at disabling Wayland:
    https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-enable-disable-wayland-on-ubuntu-22-04-desktop

    If you can't be stuffed and just want to switch distros, fair enough.
     
  11. flu!d

    flu!d Never perfect, always genuine

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    Well...Technically speaking Apple's job is made considerably easier considering no remotely modern Nvidia GPU is even supported by their OS.
     
  12. munchkin1

    munchkin1 Member

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    Things are slowly improving...
    - I think gpu is now working, though there are still random errors, I'll see if it's an issue when I get to running things (no idea how serious: "amdgpu: TAHITI not supported in kfd" "priority: 3")
    - I'm not sure if I actually need a GPU. I have a google coral for when I set up face detection stuff. Haven't started yet so don't know, if not needed I'll remove it and run iGPU anyway
    - Installed some software 'cockpit'. This cures my need for some basic gui, all I wanted is something like what my synology has - simple basic system overview to get a glance at temps, loading, etc. This was the first thing that came up on google, so I haven't yet looked around if there are better altnernatives, but so far it seems good
    - wake on lan from home assistant working
    - ssh working
    - snap removed and disabled from being grabbed, at least if the guide i followed was good. Normal firefox installed and suddenly it loads instantly...can't imagine WTF they were thinking with this snap rubbish. None of the benefits even remotely compare to the extreme downside of total death loading times for basic apps on a modern full blown PC

    Just about comfortable enough to move it to the server rack. Maybe I over-reacted a little given it's only been a couple days screwing around to get a workable baseline OS. With snap removed it's nice and fast, after installing a bunch of basic software I can easily enough remote in.
    My judgement now is that it's basically the same as it ever was for home use - great for nerds/server/hobby use, still terrible as a general desktop OS for the average noob

    edit: forgot to add...googling for how to solve various issues is pretty funny. There seems to be an overwhelming mentality of 'it works on my system which isn't identical, therefore you broke something or caused it yourself', there is a ridiculous amount of completely useless responses across the upper results from googling. Also funny is any time any windows comparison is mentioned in relation to asking how to fix something that is slower/worse/doesn't work, it is met with extreme hostility. Ahh the classic militant open source cult, lols. That said, after wading through the nonsense I usually find some very well written explanation eventually, it just takes some looking :)
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2022
  13. flu!d

    flu!d Never perfect, always genuine

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    Usually this is out of shear frustration when people just expect Linux to be a drop in Windows replacement and state 'it works under Windows so why doesn't it work under Linux'. Linux is Linux, Linux is not Windows in the same way MacOS is not Windows. Windows is not the benchmark every OS has to aspire to.

    I remember the first time I installed Windows 10, it booted to a black screen with a blinking cursor.
     
  14. Elyzion

    Elyzion Member

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    I'll take things that didn't happen for $10.
     
  15. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    It's the same everywhere. Mention Mac on a Windows forum, Android on an iPhone forum, whatever. People are comfortable in their tribes, and anyone different is scary and we must throw rocks at them. Computers didn't change that.

    We're not even getting on to sports teams, political parties, console vendors, religions, diets or workout preferences yet. It's cute to call all of these "cults", but the other side always ironically thinks the same in reverse. Particularly when your introductory post has a lighter in one hand and a fuel canister in the other.
     
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  16. von Stalhein

    von Stalhein Member

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    First time in about 4 versions I haven't done a clean install.
    I needed to faff about with Firefox to get it sorted as the old version wasn't from a Snap.
    The only other issue I've had related to Variety ( https://peterlevi.com/variety/ ) in that I can't get it to start on boot.
    It runs fine when I start it manually and there don't seem to be any errors when I start it from Terminator. Gremlins.
     
  17. OP
    OP
    GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

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    Even thou the "Mozilla Team" have created a PPA for products that hasn't been hamstrung by Ubuntu insistence on snap, it is time for me to say good-bye and move back to Debian. Thanks Ubuntu for all that you have done to mainstream Linux desktop, I think you have gone too far this time so I will return to a distro that respects FOSS and choice.

    Elyzion I agree.

    I have a new desktop, a HP ProDesk 600 G6 i7-10700T which has a UHD Graphics 630 controller, will have to see how that does with Steam and Lutris. Lenovo are dragging their feet with the x13s, and no one I have spoken to has a clue to release date, so HP got some of my monies.
    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/124568803880

    RIP Ubuntu
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2022
  18. Elyzion

    Elyzion Member

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    I've moved my work laptop over to Fedora 36. Prob gonna move my personal laptop from Manjaro to Fedora.

    All our EC2 instances at work finished moving from Ubuntu to Amazon Linux 2 on friday, and the CPU utialization is lower by about ~10%.

    Start new job in 2 weeks and will be stuck on Windows for a while.
     
    RnR likes this.
  19. cvidler

    cvidler Member

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    Hope there's a sizeable pay increase for putting up with that crap.
     
  20. Elyzion

    Elyzion Member

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    It's more of a temp thing because I do .NET, while my current job for the past 3 years has been .NET core, I haven't had a need for Windows. But new job still has a few projects in .NET Framework, so once those are migrated can move to Linux.

    Pay increase was a good until NZD tanked vs SGD.
     

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