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Unreal Engine v5

Discussion in 'Video Cards & Monitors' started by RnR, May 14, 2020.

  1. RnR

    RnR Member

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    You may need a bucket to catch all the drool...

    https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/blog/a-first-look-at-unreal-engine-5



    :wired: :eek: :thumbup:
     
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  2. asho444

    asho444 Member

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    It looks .... Unreal! The dynamic lighting was awesome as was the textures.
    Since it's running on ps4 here's hoping it doesn't hate amd hardware like 4 does
     
  3. PsychoSmiley

    PsychoSmiley Member

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    Inb4 'Reee does it support SLI?! Cos UE4 doesn't therefore it's shit!'
     
  4. OP
    OP
    RnR

    RnR Member

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    Say hello to 200GB game dl's :D
     
  5. power

    power Member

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    The big news wasn't just this it's that there are no royalties until 1M revenue. Even more shit shovelware that looks nice full of stock assets. The days of pretty games requiring budgets is so over. I know it's been the dream of engine developers for many years but my god get ready for hearing "made by one person and it looks like this?" it's going to get old really fast. There is so much half baked trash already with UE4 as it is this will only make it worse. I love the tech but also value real creatives and am glad they will have access to these tools but am dreading sifting through the rubble to find something worthwhile.

    I guess at least the technical hurdles will be out of the way soon enough.
     
  6. PsychoSmiley

    PsychoSmiley Member

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    I wonder how much of the plug'n'aspect they talk of assets comes from work in media production (I feel I need to tag elvis here)? Disney/The Mandalorian already uses UE within their production, seems like it's functionality that's come from another sector that's now bled into the engine in general.
     
  7. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    The average full length Hollywood film now clocks in at around 1PB of raw material. A big Marvel epic would be closer to 5PB.

    Gamers want 4K 144FPS everything turned up to max. Well, you want movie quality images, then prepare yourself for movie quality file sizes.

    When you hear things like "Disney use UE", that's typically pre-viz. i.e.: when people are trying to do "lookdev" on a shot to get a feel for what the final result will look like.

    For now, game engine rendering for final output is confined mostly to smaller things. I've seen TV commercials, kids cartoons and other things done in UE. I've seen slightly larger things done in RedShift:
    https://www.redshift3d.com/

    But again, dig through their gallery and customer stories, and you'll see lots of games and ads, not much in the way of Hollywood epics.

    The reason for that is RAM. Even the largest GPUs on the planet are grossly limited by memory. I've seen servers with 256GB RAM redline and crash due to render loads. So while GPU is much faster at making a picture, it's also much more constrained with how much information can be packed into that picture. For film, where audiences are staring at epic space battles on 4K digital screens that are many meters wide, that won't cut it.

    On the asset side, yes there's a lot of sharing. Car manufacturers will send real designs to VFX houses for TV ads (almost every single car ad today is all VFX - check to see if you can see a driver in the seat or not, as that's your clue). Film VFX models get sent to game studios to make tie in games. There's a lot of content security around that (that's my job these days). But the end result is a closer match between different media, which is a good result.

    But, as for game engines in film - I think that will happen one day. And that day is getting closer. UE is truly an amazing bit of software, but the limits it faces are the hardware we can put behind it, rather than the engine itself.
     
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  8. power

    power Member

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    ???

     
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  9. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Maybe. Remember that the largest amount of RAM you can get on a GPU today is 32GB. Meanwhile render farms roll out servers on average with 256GB (8x any GPU). Often *much* more.

    When I left my previous company, the STANDARD SPEC for a graphics workstation was 64GB of system RAM, and we had artists screaming for 128GB. That was a year ago.

    GPUs are lighting fast, no doubt. But the same arguments apply as your desktop. Would you build a bitchinfast PC Master Race with 4GB RAM in 2020? What if that RAM was DDR7 and could push 1PB/s of raw data? Would it matter? No, as all that speed is sitting there idle while you're trying to load assets in and out of memory.

    I totally understand why GPUs don't have the sorts of RAM we want - it's not cost effective in the current market. You're already looking at datacentre GPUs that cost more than a small car, and certainly more than most of our gaming rigs. But that's where the bottleneck is right now when it comes to movie-quality visuals in realtime on your home computer.
     
  10. power

    power Member

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    this also leads into why Cerny banged on about how they worked with the SSD on the PS5.
     
  11. Nethiuz

    Nethiuz Member

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    Just watched in 4K, i needed a bib!


    Playstation 5 ;)
     
  12. power

    power Member

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    expect more DEATH COURIER!

     
  13. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    https://www.amd.com/en/products/professional-graphics/radeon-pro-ssg

    GPU with a 2TB SSD strapped straight to the bus as "second tier memory". The fact that I've never seen one of these in production is alarming. I have no idea why these aren't taking off.
     
  14. OP
    OP
    RnR

    RnR Member

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    Not pre-vis. In camera final shots...

    and
    https://ascmag.com/articles/the-Mandalorian

    It really is a game changer.
     
  15. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I 100% guarantee you it wasn't a final shot, and there was till considerable compositing done of multiple sources.

    Don't confuse a press release with what happens behind the scenes. These media releases take some pretty creative licenses, mostly for bragging rights.

    I know we're all very excited about this tech. But there's still a lag. For example, the global illumination stuff in the video is by far the most interesting and best realtime version I've seen in a long time. But it's still not as good as GI from 20 years ago in non-realtime.

    The gap is closing (this was impossible 10 years ago, and is impressive now, which is a huge jump), but we're not 100% there yet.
     
  16. PheonixV2

    PheonixV2 Member

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    They released a full workflow a couple of months ago for the mandalorian
    https://ascmag.com/articles/the-mandalorian
    Of course not all shots are done this way, but all cinematic landscapes were
     
  17. OP
    OP
    RnR

    RnR Member

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    With respect, that article is not a press release.



    "Final pixels in camera"

    Yeah thats the article I quoted from :D
     
  18. power

    power Member

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    tread carefully padawan.

    final shot =/= braodcast.
     
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  19. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I still doubt that. These things go through DI and grade before they hit cinemas. Always, no exceptions.

    Yes, they're getting further than ever. But "final pixels" to a DOP is different to "final pixels" to a colourist/DIT.

    And there's a reason for that too. Same reason why car commercials are easier to do without people in them.

    I'm not trying to shit on anyone's parade here. The UE5 video earlier in this thread is packed full of obvious problems to anyone with a trained eye. The GI demonstration early on, for example, had enormous lag between light sources moving and the resultant GI. Similarly there was notable pixel shimmering in a lot of the edge detail that would need cleanup if it was going to a cinema.

    But I repeat - this stuff is incredible for realtime. Getting better requires software rendering that takes hours per frame, and this engine is doing a single frame in milliseconds. That is absolutely nothing to sneeze at, and I greatly look forward to the day when we can throw out the old way all together. But we're not quite there yet, even if Disney had the cash to throw huge GPUs at a handful of rock renders and then forget that the folks in the grading suite cleaned it up after.

    Like all complex problems, the first 90% is a relatively fast process. The final 10% is enormous and painful. Even non-realtime rendering hasn't gotten to what any expert would consider "photo real" for 100% of what a real camera can capture, and that is without any time constraints of what a realtime engine requires.

    There is still a long way to go, even if this is really, really exciting.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2020
  20. PheonixV2

    PheonixV2 Member

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    Why would you change what your point is? We weren't discussing colour grading, hell any shot taken with a real camera outside still needs to undergo colour grading... why even bring that up?

    Of course the technology still has to progress, and they've done an amazing job so far and will only get better from here. All we said was that in-shot takes were done using UE4 in the mandalorian for backgrounds and then you go and say no they weren't and change your point afterwards
     
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