VCE IT: Software Development language choice.

Discussion in 'Programming & Software Development' started by Deliverancexx, Jan 6, 2009.

  1. Hohne

    Hohne Member

    Feb 23, 2005
    As someone who uses both (usually C# though). They're basically identical. VB.NET I would say may be easier to pick up without a programming background, C# if you are coming from another language.

    There are seriously for almost every programmer, only a few very very minor differences between C# and VB.NET (they compile to the same damn language as far as the computer is concerned.) All this one is superior over the other is nonsense. If you pick either, you can easily change to the other with very very little noticeable difference.

    VB6 is pretty ancient. I wouldn't bother with it. C++ is probably going to be annoyingly difficult to get basic applications done in. It's pretty much used in only very specialised or legacy fields now.

    The plus with Java, is also the negative with Java. They do a heap of it at Uni's. What this means is that they produce a heap of Java programmers who get the the real world and discover that most of the jobs are in .NET, and most of the graduates are trained in Java. This is a really good thing for those of us who did electives / extra study in .NET ;)

    There is .NET compilers etc for Linux, but I imagine it's not quite as easy as Microsoft have made it to use the windows IDE and tools. If you're used to doing things the hard way anyway (hey you use Linux), you might as well do Java. Will probably help with any development for mobiles / linux.

    The brilliance of .NET is once you've learned the language, you can use it for web apps just as easily (or more easily even) than windows applications. The downside is that you're not going to be able to run the same code on non-windows OS mobile phones..
  2. xsive

    xsive Member

    Jun 29, 2001
    It didn't need fixing. Python is faster to code in, period.
    It's an excellent language for rapid prototyping just about anything. Java, by comparison, is much more heavyweight.

    I recommended it for exactly this reason; you get results fast which is really important for beginners.
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2009
  3. Foliage

    Foliage Member

    Jan 22, 2002
    Java or C#.

    If you really want to learn more use C or C++ as you have to do a lot more work to do it as well, ultimately you will learn more though. Being as you have never programmed before using something like C would probably be far too much work though.
  4. Vik

    Vik Member

    Dec 16, 2004
    Yeah, sure...
    With the only exception that time spent learning python is total waste.

    Out of all languages the most $$$ is probably VBA in Excel as being used in banks all over the world. Next is C#/Java and only then C++ for serious back end/quant stuff...

    Other of languages probably 0.5% of the money amount of the market.
  5. Dedge

    Dedge Member

    Dec 23, 2001
    Brisbane, QLD
    Stay away from languages locked to specific platforms for educational purposes. If you're teaching on Linux workstations in the class room, students ought to be able to copy their files, take them home and continue learning. What's to say the student isn't using Windows or OS X at home? You'll want to keep things simple and make it *easy* to get the same or equivalent stack configured at home.

    I'm in agreement with xsive and surfie, select Ruby or Python. Both languages offer a lower barrier to entry, provide faster feedback, it's free and open source and all you need is the interpreter and a text editor. Tools like the Irb are invaluable.

    If you opt for the Ruby route you ought to check out Shoes. It's a lightweight, cross-platform GUI toolkit. Admittedly, it's a little non-standard, but it's *perfectly* suited for your situation. There's even a free eBook and dozens of working examples from simple applications all the way to a complex game.

    Emphasis should be on getting students interested and motivated in programming as opposed to "XYZ has a higher market share in professional dev land". All of the skills learnt should be transferable.
  6. GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

    Jan 8, 2003
    Briz Vegas
    Name 1 application written in C# that runs on a Phone, iAnything, PS1 2 3, Wii or Linux/UNIX yada yada get the picture I'm painting C/C++ is even used to write low level Windows drivers and applications.
    Thats funny... no really it is, because JAVA's strength is Middleware while .NET is Application, 2 totally different arenas. Not to mention JAVA has more lines of code in production than .NET, and I know of NO.. as in none... as in zero... organizations (major ones as I worked in banking for the last 10 years) that are replacing their JAVA with .NET, they do have .NET projects but none are to replace JAVA as the Middleware Tier.
    Linux has MONO which works... I'm not sure of the definition of work however. Linux has plenty of IDE tools, but first you have to define where the IDE finishes and the Widget library begins. So Eclipse springs to mind as the be all and end all IDE in my books, fully cross platform as well.

    C# and .NET have their place and their market, so does JAVA, dont be confused that .NET will ever replace or truely compete with JAVA, because JAVA will run on anything and everything. JAVA has the biggest install base, period, dont believe me, count all the phones on the planet and you have a start on the install base... :)

    remember there is more to coding, then pretty GUI interfaces.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2009
  7. Elyzion

    Elyzion Member

    Oct 27, 2004
  8. Bradzac

    Bradzac Member

    Aug 17, 2003
    .NET also has a good threshold in middleware. There are many Java implementations ported to .NET. In fact, a majority of my experience lies in integration, middleware etc with .NET. I can name a very large, well known telco who uses .NET for 90% of their systems.

    I also know of plenty of Java implementations replaced or being replaced by .NET implementations, but then again - that's my field.

    So you can rant all you want and bag .NET. You can claim that it will never compete with Java, but that's purely opinion, not fact, and if you truely think that, my condelences for living in a fantasy world.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2009
  9. xsive

    xsive Member

    Jun 29, 2001
    What a completely silly thing to say.

    The more languages you know the better a programmer you become. Besides, python is very useful as a scripting language and every decent hacker should know their way around one of those.
  10. chip

    chip Member

    Dec 24, 2001
    Pooraka Maccas drivethrough
    If you're anything like most year 12s, you'll be up to flat-out studying, and it makes sense to choose the path of least resistance.

    Seeing as the spec allows laptop applications, and assuming you're familiar with a Microsoft enviroment, it'll be a piece of piss to download Visual Studio Express 2008 and knock up something in C# - it does all the form building and so on for you.

    I recently switched to C# from Vb 6 for building sysadmin-y type apps for my Windows servers, and I'm getting more done in less time (This is coming from the perspective of a sysadmin who supports developers.)

    In your situation, I'd give Perl and Python a wide berth, because they're more CLI than GUI languages, unless you're looking to drive a web interface with them, in which case you may as well use PHP.

    Java is also entirely worthwhile, but you may well find the learning curve of developing Java apps with an IDE like Netbeans a little steeper than C# in VS Express, and if you're under the pump for time, this could be an issue.

    Remember, you've got the rest of your life to keep learning, but you've got a limited amount of time to complete this particular task.
  11. OP

    Deliverancexx (Banned or Deleted)

    Apr 4, 2007
    3121 VIC
    Ha, I didn't mean this to become an debate.
    Anyway as think I previously said I have decided to start with Java using the NetBeans IDE in Linux Ubuntu.
    It appealed to me because I know I can write it up on my linux machines, take it to school and it will work as perfectly on their XP Pro machines as it did on mine.
    Thanks everyone for their advice and help.

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