Water cooling system for 4 systems..?

Discussion in 'Extreme and Water Cooling' started by Darwins Theory, May 7, 2005.

  1. Darwins Theory

    Darwins Theory Member

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    Hi guys...

    Hoping for some advice from the guru's.

    Really getting sick of the noise in my home office.. i mean REALLY...!

    Been thinking about water cooling all the gear in my rack... ie 4 servers.

    My thought was to try and get a second hand aircon unit which i could pull apart to get the radiator and fan.. Install a large resoviour ie 20L in the outside unit. Bring the cable through the wall with pressure fittings....

    Now the questions...

    How do I split the flow between the 4 systems... Obviously running in series isn't a good idea.. by the time the water gets to the last box its going to be pretty warm.. Can't work out how to get the water to flow evenly between all 4 systems to run in parallel..???...

    Also on the same tak.. should i put seperate water pumps in all the systems or one large one to drive them all.... worries me running a single pump single point of failure and all that... How on earth would i size and source a pump like that...

    Would love to hear if anyone has tried to do water cooling on this kind of scale and any traps for the newbies.

    Please save my ears :D

    Matt
     
  2. macrocephalic

    macrocephalic Member

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    4 lots of tubing at 1/2" each to the res outside?

    Otherwise you're going to need a thick peice of tubing to carry enough water. Once you have a thick enough hose, use 3 Y pieces to split it into 4 thinner hoses, one to each system, pump on each.
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Darwins Theory

    Darwins Theory Member

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    Hmm dont forget i need to go in and out... that would mean 8 lots of tubing through the wall... yucky..... Think the two larger hoses and splitters would be better... hmmm...

    Really didnt want to put a pump in each system as that would be adding noise back into the room.

    Thanks for the thoughts
     
  4. macrocephalic

    macrocephalic Member

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    well you could use one large pump, you'd have to find a suitably large one tho, like one that supplies water to a house or a big pond/fountain pump. But then you have the single failure point as you mentioned.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2005
  5. nikhsub1

    nikhsub1 Member

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    I would run in series. The water temp will only rise at most ~2c from before first CPU to after last CPU, no big deal. I assume there is no OCing on these rigs, so there is no problem there. I would either run dual pumps such as the new MCP655's or if a single pump is desired something like the Iwaki MD-20Z or MD-30Z. The Iwaki's are AC and the MCP655's are 12v DC. Now for a radiatior you could go with 2 dual heater cores and place them either split through the loop (ie; Pump(s) > Rad1 > Block1 > Block2 > Rad2 > Block3 > Block4 > Pump(s) ) or you could have the rads one right after the other. The first layout, with the rads staggered would give blocks 3 and 4 water as cool as blocks 1 and 2 had (in theory). If a res is desired, run the res BEFORE the pump(s).
     
  6. OP
    OP
    Darwins Theory

    Darwins Theory Member

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    nikhsub1 so you don't like the idea of a large ie aircon radiator outside then...? The reason i was going that way was to try and reduce the fan and pump noise inside.

    Awesome to hear that the temp would only rise by 2c.. I would have expected a much more significant rise.

    Your idea of putting them in series got me thinking.. Even if i put the main rad with fan outside, i could still put some more rads in series with either very slow ie quiet fans or no fans at all.. would still help pull down the temp between systems.

    Can I ask if you have already built something like this..?
     
  7. Kippa-Dee

    Kippa-Dee Member

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    You certainly may ask - but I can't remember anyone doing it.

    I like the idea of parallel - but you may not get the same flow between all.

    The idea of running through one major rad post pump, and three minor rads post server seems like a good idea - But then you'll need to have largeish, slow-soeed fans running over the top of them to keep the temperature down... Which may be expensive, and may have some noise...

    The problem of finding a powerful enough pump is minor... I know Cathar was experimenting with some mighty, mighty, mighty powerful pumps. Enough to satisfy your needs...
    I'd be temped to rather run one pump than several, although it does result in one failure point, it may in fact be preferable due to the pressures placed on each individual pump

    The other option is to run a series AND parallel combination?

    E.g. Radiatior: Y-Split: Pump through 2 servers on one branch, pump through 2 servers on other branch, return through rad... Although flow might be an issue, so possibly a third powerful one sitting pre-rad.


    BTW, what sort of budget do you have? This'll make it easier in terms of deciding if one large rad, four small rads, one huge pump, four small pumps, etc.


    However, I eagerly await Cathar and a few other guys response :)
     
  8. Doc-of-FC

    Doc-of-FC Member

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    make 2 manifolds with ball valves and hose barbs so if you need to take out a system, you simply close the ball valves for that system and disconnect the hoses bleed them to a bucket and have a very small mess factor.

    Each cpu (if they use the same blocks) will have the same flow rates by using a manifold where as several y splitters will reduce the flow rates, remember water looses pressure the more turns it has to go through.
     
  9. TheNek

    TheNek Member

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    I would suggest running two pumps. with server systems you never want a single point of failure ESPECIALLY for four server.

    One dead pump = four cooked servers. not a good idea.

    I would suggest running the system in series. Maybe a Eheim 1250 as the mains pump then machine one and two then a 2x120 rad then maybe a MCP655 runing off server 3 to help push through the last two machines and back out to the main rad.

    Dont forget you are still going to need fans to cool your hdd's!
     
  10. nikhsub1

    nikhsub1 Member

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    You guys are overcomplicating this. Parallel is a routing nightmare and totally unnecessary. Series will keep it simple and keep the flow rates up. If you had 2 dual heater cores you could have 2 quiet fans on each rad, say 2 Panaflo L1A's. Is your goal to have a fun project? Or to reduce noise mainly? Or to keep the CPU's cooler? Perhaps all 3. Again, I take it you are not OCing these machines so what I have proposed will keep the CPU's infinitly cooler than air and much quieter, but quiet with this system is all about the chosen fans. Dual MCP655's would be great as would 2 1250's, both reliable and quiet.

    I have never H20 cooled a project like this, I have thought about doing so. I have water cooled dully machines and I think of this as 2 dually's. The old saying of K.I.S.S. certainly applies here.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2005
  11. ls7corvete

    ls7corvete Member

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    Whats the RH there? Sounds like a nice project for evap cooling to me....

    Anyways, IMHO, I would run 4 small cheap sumersible 120vac pumps, then one for cooling-rad or evap.

    Maybe thats just me though....
     
  12. OP
    OP
    Darwins Theory

    Darwins Theory Member

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    Hey Nikhsub1, my main machine is OC'd both nothing major.. ie 10% HT 2.8 running just over 3.

    The other machines are in the 2ghz range and not overclocked.

    The entire purpose behind this is to remove noise.. i'm serious the constant drone is driving me nuts.. I've gone to large quiet 120mm FANS and fan buses etc etc..

    I know that the power supplies will always make some noise.. and a low speed fan over the disks is a good idea.. but i'm hoping that will be significantly quieter than what i got now.

    The reason i was trying to get the pump outside is i've heard some of the larger units are noisey.. and no point spending all this money if i'm not going to improve the sound levels.

    As for budget, from what i have been reading i'm expecting around the $1200 mark...
     
  13. munchies

    munchies Member

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  14. ^catalyst

    ^catalyst Member

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    I think serial would be the go.

    Run 2 rigs, then pump, then the other 2 rigs. 2 pumps over 4 rigs will be fine. MCP655 would be ideal. K.I.S.S is a *very* good idea.
     
  15. OP
    OP
    Darwins Theory

    Darwins Theory Member

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    Thanks guys for the help, REALLY appreciate it.

    I've costed the system (without the pressure fittings yet) but including flow indicator and digital temp.

    Qty Matt's noise reduction project
    2 Pump (Swiftec MCP650 ie Laing D4)
    2 Radiator (Inside between Servers)
    4 CPU Waterblock
    2 Video Waterblock
    2 North Bridge Waterblock
    10 Hose per meter
    5 External cheap hose.
    10 Coolsleeves anti kink per meter
    1 Flow monitor
    1 Water Temp indicator

    Approx $1,500.

    Saw some designs for a RAD box with sound baffels which may be the go, and i got room left in the rack to take something like that. From what i am reading sounds like I may not need to put the pumps and rad's outside as the noise sounds like it would be acceptable..?

    Moved away from the large single pump to two smaller in series.. seem to have same or better performance, cheaper and quieter + i got some redundancy.

    Thanks again guys for your help, looking forward to the constructive critism.
     
  16. TheNek

    TheNek Member

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    PUMP
    Dont do the mcp650's. I would reccomend the MCP655/mcp350 and a 1250 that way you have a mains powered pump and machine powered pump.
    The benifit of this would be if you want to turn off machines you dont have to think about what computers has pumps connect and what doesnt!

    RAD
    Look at something like the Radiical.com.au single pass triple rad! Dont under do the rads especially if you want very quite fans.

    FANS
    I just got some coolmaster 120mms and they are very quite even at full load.
    And can easily be bought from umart.

    TUBE.
    Buy plutone from coolpc.com.au & you wont need cool sleves.
    I think you should look at maybe 3/8" tubing as you can then buy PCI passthrough slots for going in an out of each macine.

    OTHERS:
    dont bother with flow meters or water temp meters. flow meters just add another restriction and there is no real need to know the water temps.
     
  17. koma_white

    koma_white Member

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    With as much room as you've got (mounting it into a full rack) why not try and hunt down one of the radiators from the Suzuki Capucino's (Capcino?)? Have a trawl through for the old thread where Cathar got his hands on one. If i recall it fit 4x 120mm fans perfectly and would mount nicely in the roof of the rack with the fans in a shroud hanging down below; might also make sense to make an intake shroud to pull cooler air in from outside the rack.

    Other than that, the suggestions that have been thrown around here sound good so far. If i recall, someone has actually done this before on procooling. He had 4 computers (all ~XP1600's) running off 1 pump in series if i recall. If i get a chance ill go hunting for the linkage.
     
  18. OP
    OP
    Darwins Theory

    Darwins Theory Member

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    Thanks for the input.. Was thinking of building a dedicated radbox with its own powersupply so the pumps would run independant of the machines and with there own UPS.

    Tripple rad yes, was thinking of two of those... interesting you have said the single pass rather than the double.. can i ask why? (be gentle noob ahead)

    What worried me with the 3/8 tubing over such a long distance would be the combined restriction.. i mean we are talking like 15M of tubing...???

    Fans noted, thanks

    Tube, awesome info, and it resists crushing and kinks even on long lengths thats awesome.. will go and research more.

    But the flow meter is pretty but your point is noted :)

    Thanks very much for the detailed posting.

    Matt
     
  19. OP
    OP
    Darwins Theory

    Darwins Theory Member

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    Thanks Koma, link would be AWESOME.

    Great idea on the large rad, searching now.
     
  20. koma_white

    koma_white Member

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    Last edited: May 7, 2005

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