We need to save the internet from TPP

Discussion in 'Networking, Telephony & Internet' started by lawrencep93, May 1, 2013.

  1. lawrencep93

    lawrencep93 Member

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    If anyone has been reading the news global leaders are back on to TPP
    Info here

    Please let people know, and let's keep our internet free and open

    You can sign a petition that is also sent to the gov Here

     
  2. caspian

    caspian Member

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    the problem with this sort of stuff is it goes to far. for instance, reading the page you linked to, they want to make it legal to carrier unlock phones, presumably also inside contract. that I can't support.

    fair use is fine, they always have to slip something like that in.
     
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    lawrencep93

    lawrencep93 Member

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    I don't see the issue with unlocking a carrier phone, who wants all the bloatware they like to chuck onto phones?

    Remember you buy the phone under a contract, if you exit the contract you have to pay for the phone exit fee. The fact that you buy a phone with them unlock it and use a different carrier, makes no difference, the carrier still gets the money back + more on the phone.
     
  4. caspian

    caspian Member

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    note where I said in my post "presumably under contract". I fully support unlocking phones for free once the contract has expired, and I think the industry should be forced to do so on request.

    no they don't, because part of the cost of the handset is recouped through ongoing charges. going to another carrier before the contract expires denies the carrier of that revenue.

    also, some handset manufacturers (Apple) receive a revenue kickback from the call costs over the life of the contract, which is precisely *why* they charge an unlock fee that the carrier passes on (with their own charges on top). again, break that model and you break the business revenue.

    yes, this matters, because if the businesses are forced to change their business models to cope with decreased revenues, they will simply put their upfront prices up, and personally I'm not interested in subsidising someone's desire to exit a contract early just so they can jump carrier.
     
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    lawrencep93

    lawrencep93 Member

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    Most contracts are value caps though, as in you pay $59 per month on a cap, it doesn't change on how much you use it.

    Also you could buy phones from Vodafone under like a 24 month payment plan and they would unlock it on request, it was handset only and to leave the contract early you just paid the full value of the phone. Also under the plan the phone was $100 cheaper than out right retail.

    I strongly believe that's how it will move towards if they have to unlock phones.

    As for kickbacks to Apple, they build their phones for $100-150 and sell them for $600-800, please they don't need more revenue.
     
  6. tin

    tin Member

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    No it doesn't - contracts always have a heavy penalty for leaving early, and it can be more than the cost of staying (Optus!)... Since I've mentioned Optus, Optus don't lock their post-paid handsets anyway and any SIM can be stuck in them at any stage.

    Also, the reference above to carrier unlocking to remove bloatware - why do you need to carrier unlock to do that? Carrier branding isn't the same as locking, and even on an unlocked handset it can be a right pain in the arse to debrand a phone.

    Edit: Forgot to mention that when contracts are nearing the end, most carriers will offer a new handset for re-contracting... Costs of handset are clearly recovered well before the end of contract or carriers would be out of business.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2013
  7. coderx

    coderx Member

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    Those who are saying you shouldn't be able to unlock your phones...

    Do you overclock your computer ? (oh but that's 'different', no, no it's not)

    You buy it, you own it, you should be able to do what ever the hell you want with it.

    All the focus on phones, it's the laws we should be worried about, the ones we are not going to be told about....

    man the cannons ! TPP off the port side !

    -petition signed.
    -social media spread underway.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2013
  8. Carcin0Genic

    Carcin0Genic Member

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    Regardless of wether or not I agree with you, overclocking a pc and unlocking a phone are two very different things.

    Are we talking about carrier unlocking or jail breaking?

    Either way, this TPP is a load of crap and will never make it through.
     
  9. coderx

    coderx Member

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    Last edited: May 2, 2013
  10. caspian

    caspian Member

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    then the cost of the product is built into that cap.

    if people want to continue paying $59/month plus the costs of using another carrier, that's fine with me.

    you think a smartphone costs $100-150 to design and produce, do you? wow.

    if you're paying the exit fee then fine. either way, the cost gets paid so the business model works.

    sure, the carrier will happily waive a couple of months of contract if they can lock you back in again for another 2 years. revenue stream, baby!

    carriers are businesses, think of it as advertising.
     
  11. Carcin0Genic

    Carcin0Genic Member

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    That report does nothing to factor in design costs, R&D for future iPhones, marketing, and on a smaller scale distribution.
    And don't forget all the people in he middle who need to make a cut.
     
  12. caspian

    caspian Member

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    do you think it costs $35,000 to make a Commodore? of course not.
     
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    lawrencep93

    lawrencep93 Member

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    Here is how much is costs to make an iPhone $207, I was off by $50.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/49086627
     
  14. blankpaper

    blankpaper Member

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    ... not including anything required prior to the manufacturing process, which also happens to cost money, funnily enough.
     
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    lawrencep93

    lawrencep93 Member

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    Yeah and that's why they sell them for $6-900, they don't get money from someone making calls on the phone, they also get a constant stream of money from the app store and so on.

    If you restrict people from unlocking an iPhone they will jailbreak it, then get free apps, if you unlock it for them, they are less likely to jailbreak it and will use the app store generating greater profit for Apple and app developers.
     
  16. caspian

    caspian Member

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    plus the R&D, plus the advertising, plus everyone down the line making a profit out of it.

    if you think the product is not worth the price, don't buy one. Apple won't be offended.

    the carrier factors that profit into their revenue model. I don't *need* to be paid penalty rates for weekends, but I expect it. as a result, like the carrier, I factor it into my budget, and also like the carrier, if I wasn't being paid what my weekends are worth, I'd either be restructuring my pricing (i.e. wanting a raise elsewhere to pay me for it) or refusing to participate at all.

    personally, I'm not willing to see my handset prices go up to subsidise the minority of people who want to jailbreak their way out of their contract. if you don't like the contract, don't enter the damn thing.
     
  17. caspian

    caspian Member

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    Apple can charge what they like and the market will bear. we don't have to buy the product if we feel it's overpriced.

    personally I don't think the price is out of line for the capitalisation required to bring the product to market.
     
  18. iinsom

    iinsom Member

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    So if you're paying the contract of $59/m (+$15/m for the handset) you're telling me that you own the phone the minute you pick it up from the store? Or do you mean after your 12/24 month contract has expired and which case you've paid off your handset and it then yours?
     
  19. tin

    tin Member

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    You're contracted to purchase it over 1/2/3 years. Legally you're obliged to buy it by the time you've signed up for it, so it's yours to do what you want with. The carrier either gets their money off you, or they never deal with you again.
     
  20. caspian

    caspian Member

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    you're also obligated to use the contracted network for any calls made.

    yes, you could simply not make calls and it would be legal and OK. unlocking the handset so it can be used on another network while the contract is still outstanding is not.
     

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