Website Development

Discussion in 'Programming & Software Development' started by l.lai, Mar 24, 2009.

  1. JohnnoD

    JohnnoD Member

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    Maintain the server that it's actually hosted on.

    What's the problem? A few friends have helped out sports clubs setup custom CMS installations so they can update their own information and not have to pay ongoing fees for updates etc.

    $300/yr is cheap for business hosting, with support from a proper business. If you want something cheaper, go with a backyard host or US provider who's probably a 14 y.o kid in his room with a VPS.

     
  2. res

    res Member

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    As others have said, $300 for a business is nothing unless you're a six year old girl selling lemonade making $5 a week.

    You need to remember that not all business owners are computer savvy, paying someone else $300 to "take care" of the website once is it created would be a wise decision.
     
  3. Phreeky

    Phreeky Member

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    Absolutely agreed, it’s like the whole MSY vs Dell computer mentality, many people would rather pay the few extra dollers extra for the peace of mind
     
  4. gobbledegook

    gobbledegook Member

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    My thought is pay the $300 and if something goes wrong in future they should help you. As mentioned, most of the time there is very little maintenance on their part. However, if something goes wrong then you will be glad you stayed with them and paid a few extra dollars. And damn, $300 a year is cheap!
     
  5. Mr_LeE

    Mr_LeE Member

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    In regards to the quote, sounds about right like most people have mentioned here.

    The hosting i would assume involves the company to maintain and take care of the problems and issues.

    And an initial run through of the basics.

    Thanks

    Lee
     
  6. Kataton1c

    Kataton1c Member

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    $3000 for a static HTML website?

    Even with CMS which is easy to integrate and you have your own solution... it's really that much?

    The hosting is reasonable, as for creating the website:
    All you'd do is create a template and fill in the gaps / upload pictures.

    There is definitely better alternatives than paying that much for a static website.
     
  7. hyperstyle

    hyperstyle Member

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    Just be careful of douchebags. ~$3000 is correct for a professional static site, but you will find even the amateurs asking that price. It seems the majority of 'developers' and 'designers' are useless and lack the skills they need to do their work.
     
  8. Luke212

    Luke212 Member

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    $3000 is 2 -2.5 days work at industry rates so it would be hard to do the art and code in less than 2 days.

    what figures do you have that show the majority of artists are useless?

    if anything it is not a lack of ability it is a lack of motivation. They want to charge 3K and then only spend 4 hours on a design and thats it.
     
  9. hyperstyle

    hyperstyle Member

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    I have no figures. I said:

    That is my personal experience. I work in the industry. Actually i employ developers. 70% of 'developers' just do not have what it takes to be in the job. 10% are exceptional! If you have one of these developers you can fire all your slackers. TBH i don't hire anything but the exceptional anymore.

    Regarding designers; I've contracted work out to a few. I've yet to find one that i'm happy with. Their problems are:
    • They don't listen to what you ask for and go off on their own tangent because they feel like it
    • Get all emotional when you don't like their work :thumbdn:
    • Most (80%) ask professional prices but deliver amateur work. Going back to them and saying this isn't good enough, can you please fix this often doesn't work as they just don't have the skills to do it right. Then you have to pay them and fix the work up yourself or pay someone else to do it.
    • Lazy. Yes they indeed are.
     
  10. res

    res Member

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    Don't pay them a cent until you get what you expect.
     
  11. sparz14

    sparz14 Member

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    you have to remember all the crap it takes to make a website..

    Having to make it well presented, while keeping it compliant and working in all browsers. (even OLD IE versions - which can be very annoying) If you were only making a website which would work properly and look good in firefox, itd be freakin easy.

    Reasonable price for a professional job.

    Well, they shouldnt do that. You usually see that when they havent done a uni / tafe degree. By going to uni theyd clearly know to interview the client, write up a plan and discuss better ways of designing and setting up the website. Some clients want some crazy shit, which can affect the usability / accessibility of the website.

    Even though thats just common sense.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2009
  12. GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

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    Hahaha... thank you, I needed a laugh. In my experience, most not all, graduates (Uni) require real world experience before they are any good, they know the theory but usually miss the mark. This is based on 10 years with graduates in intake programs for financial industry. As for TAFE, usually the lower education requirements to get into TAFE results in a even less prepared than Uni graduate candidate, not all just those in the bell curve, there are always exceptions. Again however, TAFE students are capable, just lacking real world experience again.

    Just my opinion, based on my experiences.
     
  13. Elyzion

    Elyzion Member

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    Scott Hanselman did a pod cast not long ago where they were talking about uni grads coming into the industry and basically had no clue where to start, they couldn't put their theory to something pratical. But all the people who were cowboy coders, people who had taught themselves and such, did so much better and deal with pressure.
     
  14. DanWA

    DanWA Member

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    Never ask designers/coders whether thats worth it. They'll always say its not enough.

    To me its overpriced.

    I will do the job for half that.
     
  15. Luke212

    Luke212 Member

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    thats what she said.
     
  16. Optimus.

    Optimus. Member

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    For a static site, I would have thought $3k would include the design (and a rather snazzy one at that) as well as putting it together. You could be looking at a 'basic' CMS setup for that much money.

    Also, $150/h for content changes on a static site? Wow, that's a pretty exuberant rate.

    $300 for shared hosting with business-level support is most reasonable. That's only $25 a month.
     
  17. platinum

    platinum Member

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    As a designer (and someone who deals with other designers) I would say sometimes you need to re-work the way you look at working with designers.

    This is sometimes easy to forget, but don't sell yourself short, you're going to a designer because you can't design (I'll assume). Give them some guidance, tell them what your outcomes and end goals of the design are, give them the specs of what it needs to do for the user, but don't become a backseat designer, it's like hovering around a mechanic fixing your car telling them where to put the oil and hoses.

    Sure, ask questions, propose something be changed, but I really do advise people to listen and "work with" their designers, far too many projects end up being less than perfect because the client/employer with no design sense decides to tell the professional designers they've hired how to design.

    I guess at the end of the day, it's important to realise that you're not designing the site for "you", it's for the people who are going to use it - would you rather a site that you've designed that looks great to you, and you've told your designer to build the site exactly as "you" would build it (which if you aren't from a design background is a bit silly)... or would you rather the designer take the project specs and design something that makes good design sense and users will be far more likely to hang around.

    heh - this may work when you're dealing with 15year olds giving you website templates for $50 but a professional designers time is worth money, it's not "free". :Pirate: For example, if you choose to goto a movie that you think is good, and it isn't quite "your thing", you still have to pay up, because that's the way things work in our world.

    I'm not trying to be harsh here, but it does get to me sometimes that people think designers just fluff around all day and can do unlimited designs for $xxx no matter how long they spend on it.
     
  18. res

    res Member

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    I don't expect anyone to work for free, if you go off on a tangent you will need approval first otherwise don't expect to get paid unless you produce quality. I would prepare an outline of what is required including clearly defined goals. During the project I would expect updates to make sure it is going as planned, I am not one to sit around waiting for things to happen. It is also written into the contact that, as you meet specific goals you are paid $X amount.

    This is difficult to apply to such a small project, if I was in such situation I would ask to see some previous work before making a decision.
     
  19. fabricator

    fabricator Member

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    If they need to make changes to the site that often, then some sort of basic CMS whole costing more at the start, would save money in the long run. At a basic level this is a password protected web page(s), which alter content stored on the server.

    To give an example, the page for coming events is stored on the server as an series of entries in the database, and an admin page allows anyone to add, remove or alter the details on events (which are just stored text).

    The only thing to watch out for is the CMS can alter the things you need to change, and that it is easy enough for the owner/staff to use.
     
  20. jomo

    jomo Member

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    Thanks my 6years working in webhosting industry didn't provide me with that sort of information.

    I was elaborating from Frazzmans point saying that the gym could easily upload their own site to a $10 a month host and save a shitload of money.

    :rolleyes:
     

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