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Well this is interesting, yet scary....

Discussion in 'Windows Operating Systems' started by Current, Jun 12, 2022.

  1. t8y

    t8y Member

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    currently you can still bypass MS account login/creation and create a local account, several ways to go about that, most just require no internet connection/disabled/disconnected at the OOBE and following some optional prompts
    link, not sure how many currently work still etc.

    either way, i just use MS account, even on high seas versions of windows etc
    i've technically had a MS account since forever thanks to hotmail, so i've been using that
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2022
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  2. trevor68

    trevor68 Member

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    I don't even care, I've had a family sub for years, they are pretty good value for 5 users, each with 1Tb cloud.
     
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  3. rg144

    rg144 Member

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    ^^ That. Value.

    Subscriptions are not the end of the world. We all love free services, free email, free office suites, free cloud storage. But if Google decided to charge all (currently free) Gmail accounts $2 p/yr (which would add +$8bn to their bottom line of 4 billion users), it's still bloody great value.

    And I don't hear anyone b!tching about the FREE upgrades from Win 7 --> Win 10 --> Win 11, when previously Windows used to cost $100+ (legitimately).
     
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  4. power

    power Member

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    Well, the assertion is YOU WILL LIKE IT.
     
  5. wwwww

    wwwww Member

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    Unless this has changed, you can always just hit "Domain join" to create a local account.
     
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  6. rg144

    rg144 Member

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    "Bloody great value"" doesn't assert that I'll like it, rather simply assessing it as great value.

    All a hypothetical of course based on existing product stacks from competing SaaS providers. Its not great value if everything else is competitive/better and remains free ;) Bottom line SaaS has never been better, and open source options will always find their way to market so what is the point of complaining.

    As for free upgrades, pretty sure everyone likes that ;)
     
  7. flu!d

    flu!d Motoring and Intel forum admin

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    I currently pay for Google Workspace, and personally I'm getting really tired of the fact the price just keeps going up while people rant on about some supposed inflation while totally ignoring that we've had negative wage growth since 2007 - I don't care a hoot for Google's bottom line while wages are going backwards. If Google suddenly decided to charge even $2.00/mo for Gmail, I'd imagine a vast number of users would look for alternatives. Especially considering the current cost of living concerns.

    In the early days of Gsuite you could set your domain up with a personal account that was 100% free, a number of people made use of it. Recently Google decided that after a good eight or nine years they were going to force people to pay for their product or dump long term users of the free product completely, needless to say such users are jumping ship to providers that are still 'free' and have no intention of paying Google for their service whatsoever.

    As far as office suites are concerned, I blatantly refuse to pay a subscription (or even outright) for the worlds most incompatible with ISO standards office suite marketed to be the most compatible. it's not even fully compatible with older versions of MS Office itself. Libre Office works fine concerning the daily running of my business, and I prefer Thunderbird to Outlook.

    Subscription services are basically just a modern day rort. However I'm beginning to get the feeling there's a generation that know no better than having money pilfered from their back pocket for no good reason other than outrageous profits and shareholders - Certain individuals wear the fact that they pay more for products as a badge of honor, as if to imply "look at how wealthy I am"!
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2022
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  8. rg144

    rg144 Member

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    This is the 2nd time in a week you've tried to hammer home "this generation know no better other than to pay more for things/the more you pay the more bragging rights/inflation" angle. First it was LG OLED's are too expensive in the LG thread, now here.

    Whilst I agree there's clearly a difference in every generation's spending habits, that doesn't mean the youth of today don't see value, don't know how to save or don't know how to spend wisely.

    But we're not discussing this.

    We're discussing that subscription services aren't scary.
    Windows 11 is not scary.
    And value is subjective/based on individual requirements.

    You don't like it don't pay for it and stfu. But its a little rich to be-little others that actually get value from whatever service they pay for.

    We can all sit here and say Netflix is a rort, or Google Suite is a scam, or Cloud Backup is a scam because "Cloud Sync" is better value. That is the argument I've had for years with people who don't understand personal/business requirements or quite simply- the difference between Google Drive and Blackblaze :rolleyes:
     
  9. nope

    nope Member

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    Remember when /g/ old ocau and ircq/BBS used to say Bill gates was evil? That hasn't changed.
     
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  10. flu!d

    flu!d Motoring and Intel forum admin

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    Well...

    We are discussing the notion "You will own nothing and be happy". However, you do have an Apple logo as your avatar. :rolleyes:

    The fact is: The notion of inflation is so out of control that the reserve bank keep increasing interest rates - So obviously there is a majority that are spending far too much money no matter what the cost; as long as they keep forking out hand over fist, prices will continue to rise unless something is implemented to curb the senseless spending.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2022
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  11. rg144

    rg144 Member

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    I think we all agree that owning something (and being happy) vs paying for a service (and being happy) are 2 totally different things but the end result is the same. Many of us here love tinkering and DIY/doing things on the cheap. But nothing wrong with paying for a service that can do it better than you can.

    If you're not happy with a service/product, or sick of it, don't pay for it, don't use it, take responsibility, move on. There is absolutely zero to gain from whinging. I thought elvis was pretty clear in his post earlier.

    haha that's stayed the same for 20yrs because I'm too lazy to change, not because I'm some Apple fanboy. Should be pretty evident I'm tech agnostic, in case you're unaware from my minimal # of posts in apple forums, and posts across other forums/threads :rolleyes:

    Neverthless changed it for you to appease since some people can't see beyond avatars...

    Hope that's better :thumbup:
     
  12. JSmithDTV

    JSmithDTV Member

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    If no one complained online about things... half the internet wouldn't exist. :lol:

    People shouldn't just sit back and let big corporations push them around... the advice shouldn't be to stfu, but to discuss their concerns openly and properly.

    I agree it's not a good trend that companies don't want any customers to actually own anything anymore... sad state of affairs.



    JSmith
     
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  13. flu!d

    flu!d Motoring and Intel forum admin

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    Google Workspace is great, there are some real advantages to hosting my email and more with Google's services - However there is a very firm line in the sand, and when Google eventually overstep that mark I will tell them where to stick their cloud services. Likewise, I will search for music I can actually own as opposed to a streaming service with downloaded music I effectively rent - I'm not interested in renting music as long as I keep paying that subscription.

    The problem is, there's too many people that don't vote with their wallet, with a vast majority seemingly conditioned to just accept ever increasing costs and loss of ownership as a way of life and cop it - This is the problem today, this is the reason why so called inflation is out of control, this is the reason why the reserve bank has to step in.

    At some point, people need to say "no more, I am not a cash cow". I mean, Geezus, people pay other people to pick up their McDonalds for them now...
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2022
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  14. rg144

    rg144 Member

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    Its evident software licensing has definitely moved to a 'leasing'/servicing/pay as you go model. And yes I agree people pay more for convenience then ever before. In some cases that comes at the expense of the user.

    But in other cases it can also be to the end-user's benefit, i.e:
    1. From a value perspective (i.e a sub vs purchasing games/movies outright)
    2. Not being locked into an outright purchase when requirements maybe changing/only need the service for a limited time.

    So long as the software/game/movie remains available, I don't care for ownership, a subscription is fine if its cheaper in the long run.

    But this isn't because of inflation, or people not voting with their wallet. Rather- pricing models have changed as corporations look at alternate ways to profit; now that technology (infrastructure, capacity etc) has evolved to allow said services to be delivered.

    From a pricing perspective, gym memberships have been doing this for 30 yrs. So do we have a problem with gym memberships, and does everyone have to own their own gym at home? No.

    Rather than complain (wasted energy), just simply turn it off.

    If everyone unsubscribed from Spotify (or Windows 11) they'd either
    a) lower their prices or
    b) we'd have a newer competitor or
    c) a newer pricing model

    to fill the void.

    Or alternatively- people will just go back to ownership.

    It's pretty simple: If you can't change a situation, remove yourself from the situation.

    No-one wants big corporations to push the little guy around, so the only way to avoid that is to do something, not whine. Complaining does nothing unless you actually do something about it. Turn off. Go somewhere else. Host a fu<king rally.

    We forget there was a time when the entire internet was free.
    That point is any moment you desire to hit Unsubscribe.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2022
  15. flu!d

    flu!d Motoring and Intel forum admin

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    The problem is in many cases it's not really an essential 'convenience' anyone really needs (people can get their own McDonalds) - The word 'convenience' is just the term used by stupidly large multinationals to sell the rort to the masses, and the honest truth is we have been conditioned (or perhaps we can't remember a time where it wasn't the case) to simply accept our reaming and work harder to pay the outgoings.

    I don't 'need' the convenience of Google Workspace, I accept it until the price goes beyond what I deem equitable. I am not a product, I am not interested in some huge multinational's 'bottom line'.

    Obviously this isn't what's happening, hence the need for the reserve bank to step in. You can only justify hyperinflation to a point, once the reserve bank steps in it's obvious the US form of capitalism is robbing us blind. Even an excess in taxation isn't controlling people's spending.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2022
  16. rg144

    rg144 Member

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    Dude I totally appreciate your perspective, and on a moral/ethical level I'm pretty sure I agree on many levels, especially with respect to what really is an essential service these days. Many things just aren't. But now we're spiralling down the path of needs vs wants, again who are we to judge what people's requirements are based on outgoings? Thats what the wider market decides.

    - If people like the service, they pay.
    - If people like the service but can't afford it, they dont pay.
    - If people think its great value but doesn't fit their purpose, they don't pay.
    - If people have been 'conditioned' to like service & they still bloody pay for it anyway, their prerogative. Who cares.

    And if all the above ruins it for you, or makes the product go beyond what you deem equitable, go somewhere else lol!

    Whilst a music subscription might not be essential to you, it can be essential to a family, or people in entertainment, or of great value vs buying dozens of albums every year. The same applies to games, movies, software etc where people have no desire to own (for lack of resale value, care for storage, management etc).

    But to put it all down to inflation, economic policies, the reserve bank stepping in, a case for hyperinflation, greed, or ultimately the failure a capitalistic/overspending society being robbed blind is beyond the scope of a simple subscription service.

    We could say the same for people overspending lines of credit, buying houses they cant afford, cars, credit cards yada yada yada. Irrelevant.

    Dude- it's just a user using software the world ain't that bleak!!! :p

    Read elvis' post again, save us another trollfest.
     
  17. elvis

    elvis OCAU's most famous and arrogant know-it-all

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    That's cute, but Microsoft really, genuinely, truly do not read your posts here or give a shit at all about individual opinion.

    Other than your dollar, you are worthless to them. Your voice is meaningless. Your opinion moot. You have one option to send a message to them, and that's not to give them your dollars. That's literally the one line of communication you have.

    "Discussing your concerns" is worthless if your goal is positive change. If you just want to have a whinge, go for it. But nothing will come of it. You're either going to have to put the effort into finding an alternative, or continue being pushed around. Make your choice.

    I made mine years ago. 2004 was the last time I used a Microsoft desktop for personal use, because I'd had a gut full back then. What's changed in 18 years? Not much. People still complain about Microsoft while continuing to bend over and take it from them, and people keep telling me that I apparently can't use the desktop I've been using for almost two decades because it's not good enough for <insert arbitrary problem that I don't actually have>.

    Who knows, maybe I'm just using my computer wrong. But I sure as hell don't need to whine about Microsoft any more. That's pretty nice.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2022
  18. flu!d

    flu!d Motoring and Intel forum admin

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    It's what the wider market has been conditioned to believe they need, the fact is they don't, really, need the service in question.

    Well...No, not really. When everything is now a subscription service, and we need four or five subscription services to replace the video or record store, that's an outgoing expense and our desire to pay no matter what the cost is resulting in hyperinflation as a result of outright corporate greed. As a result the reserve bank has to step in.

    Understand that debt is not a measure of wealth. People are too accepting of debt and overspending.
     
  19. rg144

    rg144 Member

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    Your desire to pay no matter what the cost is results in hyperinflation, not the subscription service.
    Your desire to pay no matter what the cost is the result of greed, not because of the corporate.
    Your desire to pay no matter what the cost is puts you in debt.

    Your choice.

    And no-one ever mentioned "debt was a measure of wealth", where in the land of OCAU is this coming from :rolleyes:

    And the reserve bank has nothing to do with Microsoft or Google services, nor could MSFT/GOOGL give a rats about a/our reserve bank. If anything they just find ways to work within economic policies. Or they dont. And please we don't need to hear about corporations lobbying governments or central banks etc :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    Rabbit hole alert #50.
     
  20. OP
    OP
    Current

    Current Member

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    Wow. This thread got busy.
     

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