What do you think re superUHD vs OLED ?

Discussion in 'Audio Visual' started by vladtepes, Aug 10, 2018.

  1. vladtepes

    vladtepes Member

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    This guy (LTT) is annoying but its a video that raises a few good questions like, is OLED really worth the
    money?

    If they cost the same would you buy a 55" OLED or 65" 'super UHD' model?

     
  2. HobartTas

    HobartTas Member

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    I'd say at this point most people are buying the largest size they can in LED (I have a Sony 79" KD79X9000B) and especially if that's a 65" or even a 75" its way too expensive for OLED, also image burn and image retention precludes buying OLED at this point in time and no one want's this same issue that plasma's had, but those problems are expected to get fixed in a year or so and if the price comes down a bit then more people might start buying them, the top of the line LED TV's seem to have similar colour brilliance to OLED's with no longevity downsides.
     
  3. OP
    OP
    vladtepes

    vladtepes Member

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    Thanks.
     
  4. PersianImmortal

    PersianImmortal Member

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    This question highlights the importance of actual research, as opposed to watching an opinion-laden infomercial. A YouTube video with a deliberately misleading (and flat out wrong) clickbait title, featuring an annoying, attention-seeking git, who actually pauses part-way through the video to promote a completely unrelated product, should clue you in as to just how reliable his opinions are: not very.

    First, the video's title. LG is not "ditching OLED". OLED is the future. LG is investing billions more into OLED production, while cutting back on LCD:

    Samsung is also investing heavily into OLED, and both Sony and Panasonic are already onboard using LG panels. And smartphone manufacturers like Apple are quickly transitioning to OLED too.

    Why? Because OLED, like plasma before it, emits light directly from each pixel (How OLED Works). This allows unequalled contrast (contrast is extremely important for image quality), and more natural colour. LCD, no matter whether it's called LED, QLED, SUHD, SuperUHD, etc. has been, and always will be, a second-best display tech, because it filters light coming from behind a grid of LCD cells. It can never overcome this limitation. The latest improvements increase LCD's color gamut, and Full Array Local Dimming (FALD) greatly improves accurate contrast, but not to the point where it can match or beat OLED.

    OLED does indeed come with burn-in and image retention concerns, but these are largely overhyped. The organic nature of OLED means that pixels age, and uneven ageing causes retained/burned in images. This is not going to be fixed in the next year or any definable time period because it is an inherent limitation of the OLED organic film. Similarly, OLEDs are susceptible to damage from moisture or direct exposure to sunlight.

    However, the technology is already at the point where these are non-issues unless you frequently watch content with bright fixed elements (e.g., game HUDs, sports scoreboards, bright channel logos). If you do, then just stick with LCD.

    Basically, OLED is more expensive for a reason, and the better brands of OLED such as Sony are even more expensive for a reason too (superior image processing/motion handling). That's not to say that LCD is crap; as long as you go for a reputable brand (again, for image processing/motion handling) FALD LCD TV. But then the price difference significantly diminishes.

    Back to your question: 55" OLED or 65" [any]LCD at the same price, I would personally choose OLED every time. This sounds snobby, but I have to call it like I see it - If you want bigger and brighter, choose LCD, if you want better, choose OLED.
     
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  5. Arctic_Silver08

    Arctic_Silver08 Member

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    My LG oled has a screensaver that kicks in after 2 minutes if there’s a static image on the screen. burn in really isn’t a problem with it. Not sure about the other brands.
     
  6. PersianImmortal

    PersianImmortal Member

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    There's a range of protections built into OLEDs, from screensavers and unnoticeable pixel shifting, to auto-dimming, compensation cycles which run when the TV is in sleep mode, and a built-in periodic panel refresh function. Used normally (i.e, a range of content, not just hours of gaming or sport), a current OLED won't burn unless you really work at it, and even image retention is not that simple. There are plenty of horror stories, but there was with plasma too and in the end if you honestly feel you want a super-bright TV and frequently watch static content, then just avoid OLED to be safe.

    I'm still running a fault-free Panasonic plasma which looks better than most LCDs I see in terms of contrast, uniformity and motion, and I'm saving my pennies for a decent OLED. But I managed to convince my parents to switch from their very old plasma to a 65" Sony A1 OLED at the start of this year. I've spent hours configuring, testing, tweaking and enjoying watching that set when I'm over there, and I can definitely see where the money went. And they don't have a jot of image retention or burn-in, even though they don't baby their TV the way I would. Just regular viewing of FTA, Netflix, YouTube and Blu-rays in a bright room, no special precautions.

    It all depends on how fussy you are about image quality as to whether an OLED is "worth it".
     
  7. MR CHILLED

    MR CHILLED D'oh!

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    Personally I downsized to go oled.

    Not an issue unless you are gaming and have stats displayed in the same areas for a prolonged period of time.
     
  8. hippyhippy

    hippyhippy Member

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    How long you talking about ?
     
  9. flu!d

    flu!d Ubuntu Mate 16.04 LTS

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    I can honestly say, that in terms of my mobile devices, OLED blows IPS LCD out of the water in terms of PQ.

    Based on that assessment, for TV/movie viewing, hands down OLED. I'm still running a HD plasma for the bulk of my viewing with an LCD projector being used of an evening when watching movies. The plasma's ~10 years old now and still has no issues with screen burn.
     
  10. PersianImmortal

    PersianImmortal Member

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    Anecdotally, being organic, OLED, like plasma before it, actually seems to become more resilient to burn-in/image retention over time, and uniformity also seems to improve.

    Love the old plasma image quality. My plasma's 7 years old (Panasonic GT30), and with a 0.03cdm2 black level still soundly beats the blacks of even the best LCDs today, e.g. the Samsung Q9NF QLED (0.05cdm2) and the Sony 900F (0.06cdm2); of course OLEDs like the Sony A1 have pure black (0cdm2) which no other tech can beat. But modern LCDs are typically brighter, so that raises their relative contrast rating. (specs in this roundup of 2018's best TVs)

    In reality, the choice depends on whether you watch TV in a darker environment, where low blacks are more important, or a bright environment, where high screen brightness fights against ambient light.
     
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  11. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    There's a reason that people making content for everything from TV shows to Hollywood film to Netflix content use OLED as their monitors for checking image and colour accuracy.

    It's crazy to think that domestic panels are now 90% as good as professional monitors that used to cost US$50K+ for a 23" screen. Of course, that extra 10% quality is where all the money goes (as linear grown in quality is exponential growth in cost), but it's a pretty amazing time for home cinema lovers right now.

    (Also, fuck that Linus guy. What an idiot).
     
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  12. flu!d

    flu!d Ubuntu Mate 16.04 LTS

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    Lol! Love it!

    Fuck Linus.
     
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  13. flu!d

    flu!d Ubuntu Mate 16.04 LTS

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    Even HT enthusiests are quick to fall for the marketing hype of 'consumer grade 4k' LCDs and discredit plasmas, when the fact remains that plasmas still look outstanding in low light with a quality source.

    I find LCDs just too damn bright.
     
  14. PersianImmortal

    PersianImmortal Member

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    To be fair, the extra brightness of an LCD does benefit HDR, because it makes specular highlights really jump... but that's about it. In my opinion, for most other intents and purposes, even in a bright room, the retina-burning brightness capabilities of LCD are often wasted, and result in clipped whites if used anyway.

    My plasma has a calibrated 54% contrast which feels very bright to my eyes in everything except direct sunlight. My parent's A1 OLED is in a bright sunny room, but I still turned the contrast down from its default of 100% to 80% to make it tolerable for them. Tastes differ of course, but I'd suggest that OLEDs these days are more than bright enough for most people. I'm not sure why people gravitate towards very bright displays.

    I'll digress a bit more and add that while the move to 4K resolution and HDR is inevitable, and certainly not without merit, I've been a bit underwhelmed by both in practice. The best examples I've seen are in demos, especially these two free ones: New York HDR and Food Fizzle HDR. Both show the benefits of higher dynamic range in terms of more natural colours and more dynamic highlights. But actual 4K HDR movies are often just 2K upscales (since most CGI is performed at 2K max resolution), and the HDR implementation seems gimmicky at times, not to mention sometimes resulting in too dark an overall image (a common complaint).
     
  15. Zee

    Zee Member

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    Not me. I have a few Kuro's I calibrated a few years back, damn, the picture is still awesome.

    Z...
     
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  16. frnak

    frnak Member

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    Excellent post and I agree entirely. The picture quality of emissive displays (e.g. OLED) is simply unrivaled when compared to transmissive technologies (e.g. LCD). The deep space blacks that OLED can produce is difficult to put into actual words and really enhances the realism and cinema experience.

    However the burn-in issues are still very serious. Last week the salesman at HN took me on a 'walk-through' of their demonstration OLED screens. Most of them had a channel nine logo scorched in on the bottom right. This was most visible on a red background. The pixel shifting was very noticeable and produced a blurred or smeared burnt in logo.

    I'd still buy one if I had the money, but I'd be careful with static images.
     
  17. PersianImmortal

    PersianImmortal Member

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    Yes of course, but like plasma, it takes specific abuse to generate burn-in on an OLED.

    For an objective measure, they have an ongoing burn-in torture test over at Rtings.com with two LCDs and an OLED running a clip with four static logos 20 hours a day, 7 days a week. It's been running for 48 weeks now, and you can use the drop-down box at the top left of the test images to see the results by week.

    It's only at week 5 that burn-in/image retention starts showing up on the OLED. So that's 700 cumulative and near-continuous hours (out of a total of 840 hours) of displaying the exact same bright logo before a hint of retention/burn shows up. Here's a sample from week 5:

    Far Left: LG B6 OLED Middle: Samsung KU6300 VA LCD Far Right: LG UJ6300 IPS LCD

    [​IMG]


    The retention/burn is barely visible on the top left of the purple OLED screen at week 5 above.

    But by week 48 the OLED shows clear retention in all corners. That's after 6,720 hours of displaying the same logo though:

    [​IMG]


    Note the terrible general screen uniformity of the two LCDs with clear vignetting and bright areas.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
  18. PsychoSmiley

    PsychoSmiley Member

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    Bought a pre-3D Panasonic plasma. Was great. Vowed my next TV would be an OLED. Now have a B6 OLED and I love it.

    However UV exposure is a big issue with OLED. You do not want direct light hitting the screen for any time otherwise it will create discoloration and 'patches'. I now have to keep half the blinds drawn to avoid having a prism effect being case on the screen due to leadlight windows.
     
  19. fredhoon

    fredhoon Member

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    Is that permanent discolouration or only while viewing in direct sunlight?
     
  20. PsychoSmiley

    PsychoSmiley Member

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    It did correct itself after I realised what the blotch was on the screen (was like a darker patch). It persists even if there isn't light in the room so it will hang around.

    They have a built in refresh/clearing process that runs when they're in standby (I believe) and the spot is very much gone, plus I now keep at least half the blinds drawn in that room due to the way the sun travels and casts.

    To clarify you can have them in any room, you just don't want direct sunglight hitting the panel as this is what can cause discolouration. It's not permenant and can be corrected, it's just a thing to be aware of.

    The LG B6 is glossy as hell anyway so I don't like having the blinds open or light on when I'm watching it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
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