What languages do people prefer to code in?

Discussion in 'Programming & Software Development' started by chiquee, Oct 29, 2003.

  1. Aamdaron

    Aamdaron Member

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    i like c++ but i might wanna give java a go sometime but i cbf setting it up
     
  2. eugenius

    eugenius Member

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    The good old 'assembly vs HLL' arguments never fail to raise comments... However, 5x speed increase for assembly over a HLL?? Thats a little optimistic :) I think the figures quoted nowadays are C/C++/Delphi being within 90% of assembly speed.

    Assembly is good for understanding how things work at the CPU level, for device drivers, critical game code, fractal eyecandy, winamp visualization plugins, etc... No compiler can produce code as good as hand-written one but modern compilers produce pretty good code and people (including me) are by nature lazy :)

    Perfect example is UI coding where absolute optimisation is not needed since most of the time the program waits on the user. Rather it is better to have simple, readable code.
     
  3. Shalmanese

    Shalmanese Member

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    Like I said, Haskell lacks a lot of things "Real" languages have like robust file and network IO, graphics, system calls etc. It actually contains some really neat and clever features which I haven't seen in any other language except as hacked on cruft. Personally, I think its a good 1st year language because its almost impossible to develop bad style with Haskell and it lets you think outside the rut that tends to develop if you from C->C++->Java. I also think its a really cool 3rd year language as it has many genuinely cool things which are beyond the scope of a typical 1st year course. Haskell is probably one of the most elegant languages I have seen quicksort done in.

    from memory:

    Code:
    qsort (head:tail) = (qsort([x|x <- tail, x < head]) ++ [head] ++ (qsort([x|x <- tail, x >= head])
    
    As for perl, I personally just like the freedom of not having to worry about a whole bunch of tedious shit that C and the ilk forces on me. You want to store something in array reference 1000? no problem. Want to hash something? Double hash? triple hash? Plus, its string manipulation rocks. There polar opposites in terms of programming. One is pure and theoretical and is great for toy problems, the other is grungy and practical and is great for small real world problems.

    C somehow manages to combine the worst of the two with 30 year old conventions.
     
  4. MarcusR

    MarcusR Member

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    Does anyone actually know someone that uses Haskell in the "Real-World"? (I go to QUT, does that show...) :D

    And sure quicksort might be nice, but is it easy to read?
     
  5. gatecrasher

    gatecrasher Member

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    Haskell is shit, I have an exam on it on Wednesday and I f&*king hate the language. Its difficult to use, hard to read and has VERY limited functionality. I will be glad to see the day when people finally realise languages like this are out-dated and lack functionality needed in the majority of applications today...

    [thats my bitter & jaded 2c]
     
  6. mark|

    mark| Member

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    I was taking the piss because we all know that it doesn't take 5x as long to do something in assembly, nor will that program run at 5x the speed.

    The language should match the system. You don't use assembly for writing a program to use a pentium 4, and you don't use c++ for writing a program that will run on an 8-bit microcontroller.

    However as MCU's get faster and faster, you'll see assembly die out. Give it 10 years or so. A bit of a shame, especially when a lot of HLL coders I know get confused between OR, NOR and XOR.
     
  7. snoopy

    snoopy Member

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    For quick (easy) projects, VB is quite good.

    I don't do alot of internet programming (don't mind learning) so my preference is C/C++ because of the massive libraries available and it's ability to handle complex and low level stuff.

    Think of Linux, virtually all of MS products, games (non-java), programs that you use everyday - all written in C/C++.
     
  8. k0ncept0ne

    k0ncept0ne Member

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    does anyone actually care? if you can't use it for an application, then don't. that doesn't mean you shouldn't learn it. that's what pisses me off about a lot of people on these forums, they want a language they can make money with, and don't care about expanding their minds or becoming a better programmer and learning more about languages through experimenting and learning new things. it's these half assed programmers that produce half assed programs with exploitable code up to the wazoo.
     
  9. deepspring

    deepspring Member

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    k0ncept0ne,

    I don't see how learning Haskell, Eiffel, Geolang, Erlang, Scheme, Smalltalk, Oberon, ADA, Fourth, A, Lingo, Logo, E, Cobol or any other miscellaneous / obscure language that I rarely see used for anything but nostalgia, would help me code more secure programs or be a better programmer.

    Maybe you could enlighten me with an example or two relating to Haskell vs. say... Java?
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2003
  10. praiseB

    praiseB Member

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    We have to do Eiffel next year, I keep on asking why we have to learn a lanuage no one uses and I get 2 answers. 1. is that it teaches good OO design prinibles and testing stratergies. 2. That one of the creaters is one of the heads of the school of Computer Sience/Software Engenering. I think reason 2 is more belivable.
     
  11. MarcusR

    MarcusR Member

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    WORD! :D
     
  12. deepspring

    deepspring Member

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    #2 Sounds about right praiseB. :p

    Java gives excellent OO principles and it is immediately useful to employers, same goes with Python to some extent (Python is excellent for prototyping). I am guessing the first answer came from an "olde school" teacher, but thats just my opinion.

    #2 also helps me understand why a HR rep. from IBM told students at Newcastle Uni, that IBM doesn't hire Computer Science Degree's or Computer Engineering students, they hire Bachelor of Arts students instead, so IBM can train the students the way they need them without all the bullcrap the students would have been taught otherwise (knowledge without experience :rolleyes: ). Which makes sense.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2003
  13. Kathleen

    Kathleen (Banned or Deleted)

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    I don't code myself, but I recently started working for a programming company. Maybe I may pick up some stuff. Although I doubt it. :p

    I believe they use c++ as their main code.
     
  14. Aamdaron

    Aamdaron Member

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    only problem i can see with java is the fact that it runs in a VM ugh slow :D
     
  15. GooSE

    GooSE New Member

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    The most I've ever enjoyed programming is when coding in assembly for MicroChip microcontrollers. And extending from that, microcontrollers are rad. So many applications..... :)
     
  16. k0ncept0ne

    k0ncept0ne Member

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    learning those languages wouldn't necessarily allow you to write more secure programs (although with the knowledge you would come out with it probably would), it's people that want to learn more about computers, and have the passion to spend time understanding and maintaining code that write secure programs. if you're in it for money, you're going to do what you get payed for, nothing more.

    learning those languages will make you a better programmer, for sure. you'll better understand strengths and weaknesses of the languages you know, and will be able to make a better call when it comes to deciding upon a language. you'd learn more about strong vs weakly typed languages, dynamically vs statically typed languages, functional vs OO paradigm, functional vs procedural paradigm, etc etc etc. there more experience you have, the more you know and the better programmer you are.

    I'm not even going to try to pretend that Haskell is as good as Java for every day applications. I never claimed that anyway.
     
  17. deepspring

    deepspring Member

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    Ok, thank you for putting that into perspective k0ncept0ne.

    Your do realise that what works for you doesn't work the same way for everyone. :p
     
  18. k0ncept0ne

    k0ncept0ne Member

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    learning more generally makes anyone smarter, but I'll take your word for it ;)
     
  19. Thunder

    Thunder Member

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    Hahah seconded!

    that language goes out of its way to make things difficult, no loops or variables. 2 of the fundamentals of programming thrown to the wind. IO is implemented in the most useless way possible
    and it requies 10,000 seperate functions do the most basic of things.

    so i take it you've been forced into itb433 aswell? :(
     
  20. hast

    hast (Banned or Deleted)

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    haskell is awesome.. seriously :)
     

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