What Learning Javascript in 2016 Feels Like...

Discussion in 'Programming & Software Development' started by antipody, Oct 10, 2016.

  1. yoink

    yoink Member

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    I realise this is all quite tongue-in-cheek, but if anyone comes in here hoping to learn stuff, ignore all the frameworks till you've read a bit of this:

    https://addyosmani.com/resources/essentialjsdesignpatterns/book/

    Then you can identify the patterns each framework follows, and make informed decisions on what you need or don't need.
     
  2. Foliage

    Foliage Member

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    People should try taking a bottom up approach.

    Learn C, then learn Java/C#/Python, then learn web dev.
     
  3. CAPT-Irrelevant

    CAPT-Irrelevant Member

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    dafuq did I just read...
     
  4. RnR

    RnR Member

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    Yeah... surely x86 asm is needed as part of the education.
     
  5. Foliage

    Foliage Member

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    Why? If you are going to learn assembler X86 isn't that useful. Better off learning a microprocessor, much simpler.
     
  6. w0ng

    w0ng Member

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    Relevant: https://youtu.be/JEpY9C49sqU?t=45

    Why? If you are going to learn webdev, C isn't that useful. Better off learning HTML/CSS/jQuery, then one of C#/JavaScript/PHP/Python/Ruby, then one of ASP.NET/Node.js/Laravel/Django/Rails, then one of Angular/React, much more more relevant*.

    *in 2017. C might become important for webdev in the future if wasm takes off.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017
  7. Foliage

    Foliage Member

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    I see what you did there :p
     
  8. RnR

    RnR Member

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  9. g4r3th_b

    g4r3th_b Member

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    Related: https://toggl.com/programming-princess

    Well, the first one is anyway. The c# made me laugh cause I do that all the time! And half the code I write is copied from Skeet on StackOverflow :p

    Php is very true as well, thats where I started on web and didn't enjoy my job much at all! Personal taste I know (sorry php programmers)
     
  10. RnR

    RnR Member

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    "I don't pay you to copy and paste. I pay you to know what to copy and paste" - comment from a former boss :)
     
  11. General_Cartman

    General_Cartman Member

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    PHP has come a long way, it's far better than it used to be.
     
  12. w0ng

    w0ng Member

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    Only with a decent framework. Granted, most bandwagoners will link you to the outdated "fractal of bad design" article simply because it's the first Google result for "why is php bad." Other great ones I hear are "lol <php7. no type hinting. so bad. lol php7. not properly enforced type hinting. so bad" or "lolphp. facebook made hhvm/hack and i dont know why, so the reason must be because php is so bad" or "lolphp. so easy to learn. so bad."

    The one legitimate argument is that the standard library today is still badly inconsistent due it's history of wanting to be "C for the web" e.g. parameter order - array_map(callback, array) vs array_reduce(array, callback), function naming function - strlen vs str_replace, too many functions that have narrow focus use cases or ones with minor differences - explode() vs preg_split() vs str_split(), etc.

    PHP with Laravel/Symfony/Zend + phpcs/phpmd + phpunit? :thumbup:. Vanilla PHP? :thumbdn: (unless it's for small quick scripts).
     
  13. General_Cartman

    General_Cartman Member

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    Yep, I should have qualified it with 'if you use a decent framework'. I can't disagree with anything you've said there!
     
  14. deepspring

    deepspring Member

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    Even though I'd rather rub salt in my eyes before I'd ever touch PHP code again (personal reasons), I have to admit that the LANGUAGE (syntax, etc) isn't all that bad, and version 7 is a big improvement over 5.x...

    That said, I believe it is deemed a crap language by pedant's and "pro" coders for two main reasons:
    1. Firstly, it is stupidly easy for anyone to pick up and use without any serious/formal training. Just follow (outdated) tutorial xyz and you are set...
    2. Secondly, there are swaths of shit code still in use and people keep making the same mistakes by following the same shit tutorials and producing the same results.
     
  15. General_Cartman

    General_Cartman Member

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    Agreed - You've nailed it with those. Older versions of PHP encouraged really poor programming. PHP 5.4+ with strict standards enabled is ok, but there is so much legacy code out there which is terrible. Magic quotes anybody?

    The other problem is finding good PHP developers for the reasons you listed.
     
  16. deepspring

    deepspring Member

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    I once worked for a developer that used to contract out a lot of PHP work to people in places like Philippines, Indonesia, India, etc. His main motivator was financial (cheap labour), but ultimately because he couldn't get anyone in AU with the coding skills needed to keep his clients happy. Most of the coding work was WordPress plugin/theme related.
     
  17. Foliage

    Foliage Member

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    I struggle to believe that. Wordpress is the bottle of the barrel and there are plenty of people available, they are all generally more expensive than the ones from the places you mentioned though.
     
  18. deepspring

    deepspring Member

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    Yes, he probably could have found someone if he looked statewide/interstate and paid a reasonable wage for someone to relocate to our area.

    He chose to hire abroad instead.
     
  19. General_Cartman

    General_Cartman Member

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    The PHP developers who are any chop soon realise they're a rare breed and charge accordingly.
     
  20. w0ng

    w0ng Member

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    Don't think I agree with this. Decent PHP devs are the easiest to find. Decent full-stack devs are harder. Decent frontend devs are the hardest. Two main reasons:

    1. Entry-level job market.
    Landing a entry-level PHP job means, at least 50% of them, you'll be learning a decent framework and learn OOP/MVC on the job.

    Landing an entry-level front-end job means, at least 90% of them, you'll be learning doing HTML/CSS/jQuery on the job.

    2. Self-learning resources.
    Learn vanilla PHP.
    Do the Laravel/Symfony/Zend tutorials.
    Think "Fuck. All these 'basic' tutorials are pretty difficult. There must be some goto reference that I can learn all these fancy words, right?" Yep. Read POPP (2013), the red book (2002) and the blue book (1994).
    Get stuck on code. Surely others have had the same problem. Surely if I Google for solutions, I'll get StackOverflow results with 100+ votes to learn from? Yep.

    Learn vanilla Javascript and then learn ES6/ES7.
    Do the React/Redux/Angular/RxJS tutorials.
    Think "Fuck. All these 'basic' tutorials are pretty difficult. There must be some goto reference I can learn all these fancy words, right?" Nope. Try multiple blog posts where interpretations often differ amongst authors.
    Get stuck on code. Surely others have had the same problem. Surely if I Google for solutions, I'll get StackOverflow results with 100+ votes to learn from? Nope. Try GitHub/Twitter/Disqus comments where there is no definitive answer, but instead people arguing which solution works for their specific use case.
     

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