What Retro Console Activity did you get up to today

Discussion in 'Retro & Arcade' started by Daft_Munt, Oct 19, 2014.

  1. bolex17

    bolex17 Member

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    Ah man, saw that during the Direct and almost jumped out of my seat! Still good to get a Panzer Dragoon 1 remake though. Hopefully they keep the original soundtrack.

    That said, I've been playing through Saga and holy hell the game definitely lives up to the hype.
    Graphics are a bit outdated but really love the battle mechanics and story.
     
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  2. FIREWIRE1394

    FIREWIRE1394 Member

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    I think all the source code was lost for SAGA, and they don't want to have to remake from scratch because that would take effort, not just making it shiny.

    I can totally understand the hoarding mentality, even though I'm not a complete hoarder, and it's not collectors/hoarders who drive prices up it's people who want them.
    Prime example I have is my Nintendo 64.. A few years ago, after nearly 2 decades of ownership and enjoyment I decided I didn't want to see it sit in a box in my wardrobe anymore.. and most of the games have aged HORRIBLY so I put up for auction.
    Someone bid $237 for my boxed 64.. I got it brand new for $199, enjoyed it for most of my life and wanted someone else to enjoy it. I didn't determine the price. Similar thing happened with all the games.
    Similar stories happened with my SNES, Master System and gamecube I bought them, enjoyed the hell out of them, then sold them for more than I paid to fund other games. I wasn't looking to get more, but that's what people decided they were all worth.

    I maintain a relatively small collection at any one time (At the moment it's a dreamcast, a few ps1's and a couple of ps2's and saturns. with a hand full to 20 games for each) When I have played them, I will sell and move onto something else... Well the dreamcast is staying with me untill I die, but all the others can come and go no worries when I've had my fun.

    So it's not the hoarders that are the problem, it's the gamers who need to have a "collection" that determine how much they get reamed ;)
    And with SAGA, the bend you over is quite high, because there were bugger all copies sold, and EVERYONE loves it..

    I still haven't gotten around to Saga.. I've been enjoying too many modern games lately. and since it's 21 years old at this point, I think it'll hold up ok for a couple more... But I'll be catching up on saturn and PS1 stuff soon when a new game wants another god damn update for some fuck knows reason and I crack the shits and bust them out for DISC IN, PLAY GAME, IT WORKS, FUN!
     
  3. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    None of this explains why Sega (or anyone sitting on IP) shouldn't re-release old games. In fact, the quoted text above confuses me greatly, as it seems like two contradictory ideas, and not re-reinforcement as to why exclusivity and restriction of access is the answer to anything.

    If we want other people to enjoy the games we love, then legitimate re-releases are the answer.

    My issue is people who are vocally against re-releases because it devalues their collection. I saw a similar thing recently where a private Japanese buyer bid around USD $14K for a rare, cancelled game in Japan ("Indy the Magical Kid") for no other reason than to keep it out of western dumpers' hands.

    Here's a recap in Japanese. Run it through Google Translate to get an idea:
    https://famicoms.net/blog-entry-3195.html

    The winner of the auction writes (machine translated into English):

    "This title is a big page in the history of the NES, and I just wanted to avoid copying the for-sales item and putting it in the hands of those who sold it. So, I want people who really like games to be relieved. I will always protect it as a Japanese treasure. I promise. I can not do anything if I get lost from the exhibition source."

    Commentary from native Japanese speakers say that the message was clear - they didn't want non-Japanese and/or game preservationists getting a hold of this and releasing it publicly.

    Quite honestly, that's bullshit. If people profess a "love of games" as their motivations, their actions are entirely contrary to their goals. Having this bit-rot itself into oblivion on dying physical media (yes, ROM chips eventually degrade, and NES era stuff is at a massive danger point) in some basement means this game will die with its current owner.

    This need to own at the exclusion and prevention of all others is just weird. Art is at its best when it's experienced by many people. No art succeeds through fewer people having access to it. It just vanishes into obscurity.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
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  4. bolex17

    bolex17 Member

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    Makes me glad I'm more of a hardware collector than software.. fuck paying jacked up and inflated price because some guy with long hair on Youtube hypes it up to become a 'hidden gem'..
     
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  5. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    To be honest, hardware goes the same way. Console prices explode when people wake up to the nostalgia. You could buy an N64 or Gamecube for peanuts not long ago, and today prices are skyrocketing.

    Ask me why I'm a huge fan of emulation, and especially more modern FPGA efforts. And ask my why I think the IP owners are fools for not doing this more often, and leaving it up to the pirates.



     
  6. FIREWIRE1394

    FIREWIRE1394 Member

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  7. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I'm familiar with this one, and I (unsurprisingly) take Frank Cifaldi's side on this:
    https://twitter.com/frankcifaldi/status/1121887693888090112

    In summary: I think games should be preserved. That doesn't mean I think they should be free and/or "warez", but I want to know that they will be accessible at all times (and that means guaranteed to outlive the company that made them).

    BUT

    I don't want to tear games out of the hands of collectors or IP owners by force. I want companies like M2, Digital Eclipse, and others to work with IP owners to make this stuff available in a commercial capacity. Put these things on physical releases for modern systems, and sell them. Not limited copies - "Limited Run Games" are cool and their efforts are to be applauded, but they are still contributing to an artificial scarcity. If possible, use systems like GoG (IMHO an excellent solution to how digital distribution that can outlast a publisher).

    But I emphasise - people need to be brought onside *gently*. Threatening, stealing, forcing, publicly humiliating or otherwise building walls between collectors/IP-owners and distributors is the wrong way to do things.

    So I'm torn - I'm happy a rare, unreleased game got dumped. But I'm upset by the apparent method in which it was done. All that does is spook the collector herd, driving them deeper underground, and undoing the efforts of people like GameHistory.org and others who put in the hard yards and years (sometimes decades) of softly/slowly negotiation to bring people onside through patient conversation and understanding.

    The "right way" for this to work is for the rights owners to re-release 100% of their back catalogues at all times voluntarily. I 100% understand that this perfect utopia will never happen. But calm communication between sides is the answer, rather than what (apparently) happened in this particular case.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
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  8. gdjacobs

    gdjacobs Member

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    Copyright law, just as with Trademark law and Patent law, was always intended to be a trade. In exchange for a state sanctioned and protected monopoly on what you've created, you agree that what you've registered will at some point be freely usable and publishable as a public domain work.

    With the massive extension of these terms over the last 50 years or so, ownership and control of these properties has sometimes become very sclerotic, or perhaps even necrotic in the case of patent trolling. It's important for governments and rights holders to recognize this problem and work to redress the balance as inactive properties by definition steal vibrancy from the market. I think the case could be made for a "use it or lose it" methodology where sufficiently inactive properties (which therefore generate little or no non-litigious revenue) are made available, perhaps via some kind of distribution licensing standard if not by becoming public domain.

    This is already kind-of in place in some jurisdictions where works not in the public domain but with ownership that is no longer traceable can be licensed with fees in escrow for if the legitimate rights holder comes forward.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
  9. okclock123

    okclock123 Member

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    When yet another youtuber says they collect physical because it’s so important for preservation I get so angry I want to slap tham in the face.

    If you care about preservation so much - learn how to backup, use roms, everdrives or whatnot, scan print materials, rip CDs, catalogue everything and build and maintain a rock solid FreeNAS. Educate your kids and help your family to preserve family media archives while you are at it.

    Not only your grandkids will thank you but you’ll gain bragging rights when you speak about collecting and preservation.

    Last year my family lost dosens of early XX century photos to humidity because they thought the photos will preserve themselves. Now everyone is just sad they didnt know better. Even if someone snapped a photo of the archive on their smartphone and uploaded it to dropbox it still would be better than nothing.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
  10. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    This one time, I wrote some words:
    https://stickfreaks.com/misc/digital-data-preservation
     
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  11. badmofo

    badmofo Member

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    Apologies Vanne I have my PSIO up and running and did take some pics, but the process left me so cold that I deleted them in a fit of "meh". Installing the "switch" went OK but wasn't much fun. Pretty fiddly work and I don't like soldering much I've decided. There are 3 traces to cut (on my model anyway, there are several different versions of the instructions) and I won't be surprised if one of the wires I attached to the tiny VIAs pops off at some point. I think I'd better stick to working on 8 bit and older from now on.

    The instructions, software, and firmware updates are all protected by authentication and then some of the zip files have passwords on them which I had to guess in the end. And there was some messing around required to get music playing on the couple of games I ripped.

    Anyway, it seems to work well enough after all of that messing about. I've only tried a couple of single disk games - load times aren't eliminated but of course are reduced. And having all my games ready go from an easy-to-use menu will be a win. Maybe it was the painful experience I had with the vendor - I'm not loving it yet but I'm sure it'll grow on me.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
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  12. greencamel65

    greencamel65 Member

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    badmofo Which logic board is in your playstation? I installed mine in a pu-18, i didn't find the soldering that difficult but i made sure i prepped the points by removing the solder resist with a small fiberglass brush, then made sure i tinned the wires and the VIAs, and finally i dipped the wires in some flux prior to soldering. Seemed to get a good grip onto the vias however i was still a bit concerned and put some kapton tape over the top. I did not at all like the process of cutting the traces however.

    I do not like the business model in regards to the firmware downloads one little bit. But i can understand why they have done it this way when you think about how many knock off china products are out there now for other devices such as the gdemu.

    I fired up the device again last night, tried a multidisk game and it kept crashing when i was attempting to boot. Turned out i'd created the multiboot file incorrectly.

    the incorrect formatting i used for the multiboot was as below:-

    SD:\GAME1\DISK1.BIN
    SD:\GAME1\DISK2.BIN

    The correct formatting is:-

    DISK1.BIN
    DISK2.BIN

    Further to this for CD audio to work you need to use the psio utility to convert the CUE file to an alternative format, I can't remember if it was CU2 or CU3. This is for both single and multidisk games.

    I think that for the money i paid i would have liked a utility or even a basic script provided that i can just dump a heap of my bin/cue files into, and it will automatically generate everything required
     
  13. badmofo

    badmofo Member

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    Yes mine was a PU-18 too - I don't have a fiberglass brush so had to kinda scratch the soldermask off with my hobby knife; I followed your steps otherwise tho including the tape. Cutting the traces was bloody tricky and would have been easy to cock up - I consider my eyesight pretty good but nearly needed a magnifying glass for that part.

    And yes the business model is understandable I suppose, realising a product like this would take more work that I can imagine. The software and documentation is pretty good really but yes, there's certainly more messing around required than I expected. I'm assuming this is a result of the PS1 itself and / or the way in which they decided to implement the PSIO. A drop in replacement for the CD-ROM unit would have been nice, i.e. yank the whole unit out (2 minute job) and replace it with a PSIO-esque thing that used the same connectors. No parallel port required for my idea either - I'm a genius :lol:
     
  14. FIREWIRE1394

    FIREWIRE1394 Member

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    I was gonna watch a long play of beetle adventure racing... I got 2 minutes in, stopped, made the theme tune my ringtone and am currently moving furniture and junk to accommodate a setup and waiting for game to arrive.
     
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  15. Vanne

    Vanne Member

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    Thanks for the process review Mofo, and Camel too for that matter. I did read about your /adventures/ with the vendor, and that alone leaves me pretty much out of this game atm. I do wonder if we will see a GDemu-esque like for the PS1, I might hang for that...

    thanks again. hopefully we will see a few more updates on this once you guys get more familiar with it.
     
  16. WuZMoT

    WuZMoT Member

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    Good feedback on the PSIO!

    Maybe if it's is popular enough you might see a third party develop software to make things easier. This is what happened with the playstation classic with pbPSCReAlpha being much more flexible for adding games than bleemsyncs own utility. I'll be more interested in PSIO if we get some cheap knockoffs I think.
     
  17. badmofo

    badmofo Member

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    I've spent some more time with the PSIO over the weekend and I'm starting to appreciate it a bit more. It's worked A-OK with all of the images I've created, including a couple of multi-disk games. The Windows app has a function to take multiple .BINs and make them a single image, while also creating a .CU2 for you. That seems to work OK and is painless enough.

    I've seen it crash once while loading a game but otherwise it's been solid, and now that I'm using the 'fast boot' option (which skips the Sony splash, etc) I'd say that the PSIO menu comes up within about the same timeframe as the system would normally take to boot. Like I mentioned there are still load times in-game but they're cut in half at least, so that's good news.
     
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  18. nimmers

    nimmers Member

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  19. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Modern Vintage Gamer reminded me to check out the Nintendo DS custom firmware scene.

    I dug my DSi out of storage and followed the DSi camera app exploit (links to things in the YouTube description) through to Unlaunch, Hiya, then TWiLight Menu ++ for my 16GB SD card. Took longer than I expected (about an hour of stuffing around end to end, swapping my SD card between console and laptop - could probably do it in 20 minutes on a second run), but fairly straight forward even in my recently firmware-updated AUS DSi.

    What it means is no need for an R4i card, and GBARunner2 allows for GBA support (and the DSi's screen is amazing compared to even an AGS101). Downside is GBARunner2 compatibility is still pretty low (seems a 3DS with custom firmware and injected GBA games is supported better). But the project is moving fast. (I'm just waiting for Mother 3 to become stable).

    I've still got my DSLite and 3-in-1 flash card + GBA adaptor, so no dramas there. Although that only fits in the DSLite, and not my other GBAs or GameCube GBPlayer. One day I'll get a Joey Jobags as well so I can flash cheap Chinese carts and play some cool GBA games on my CRTs.

    Aaaand I need to do a GBA FAQ for this forum too.

     
  20. bolex17

    bolex17 Member

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    Awesome mate! I'm thinking of picking up a DSi off eBay.. Does it run DS games etc at full speed no lag etc?
     

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