1. If you're receiving a message that you are banned from the Current Events or Politics forums, it's not you specifically: those forums have been hidden for all users. For more info, see here.
    Dismiss Notice

What type of PCI is this?

Discussion in 'Electronics & Electrics' started by Wombycat, Apr 3, 2013.

  1. Wombycat

    Wombycat Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2010
    Messages:
    303
    Location:
    Bruthen, Victoria 3885
    This is a picture of the automation hardware used to operate a plastic cutter. Simply I need to replace the base computer, mobo, cpu, ram though I have no idea what type of PCI connector this is. Could someone please advise me?


    Click to view full size!


    Thanks in advance
     
  2. goldpenis

    goldpenis Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2002
    Messages:
    516
    Location:
    VIC
    Haha!

    I think thats actually ISA bus (Industry Standard Architecture). Think prior to PCI.

    Check here!

    Why are you replacing the whole PC for? It's old, but if it ain't broke, don't fix!
     
  3. SLATYE

    SLATYE SLATYE, not SLAYTE

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2002
    Messages:
    26,857
    Location:
    Canberra
    That would be ISA; it's what was around before PCI turned up. It died out with the PIII and early Athlons. The only modern mainboards with it are fancy industrial ones.
     
  4. PyRoMaNiAc_1010

    PyRoMaNiAc_1010 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Messages:
    150
    this thread makes me feel old :(
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Wombycat

    Wombycat Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2010
    Messages:
    303
    Location:
    Bruthen, Victoria 3885
    Atm the designing is done with CASmate pro (some 16 years old) then transferred via usb drive to the automation pc. The owner wants to use a more modern program for design (flexisign pro) and then be-able to transfer the file over a wireless or wired network to the automation pc. The owner fears the automation PC is becoming more and more temperamental and wants a replacement sorted before it fails and costs the business serious coin in downtown.

    Thanks for the help :)
     
  6. SLATYE

    SLATYE SLATYE, not SLAYTE

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2002
    Messages:
    26,857
    Location:
    Canberra
    You may well find that the software to run the machine requires DOS or a DOS-based operating system (ie Windows 98). If that is the case, your main challenge is going to be finding a board that actually has drivers for Windows 98.
     
  7. Aetherone

    Aetherone Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2002
    Messages:
    8,932
    Location:
    Adelaide, SA
    Wow, and even those are generations out of date - being socket 775. This may make obtaining chips through normal retail channels difficult.

    The commel P4ELA board looks like it supports most recent 775 chips but getting win9x drivers is likely impossible. I wonder if you could virtualise the controlling machine or if win2k/xp32 will drive the cutter software.

    Perhaps a heap of old (circa 2000) boards and a stack of replacement capacitors for them?

    See here for the boards Intel supported under 9x (scroll to the bottom).
    http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/sb/cs-008326.htm?wapkw=windows+98
    Looks like Intel support of 9x stopped around 2003.

    Woah, iBase do an 1155 board with ISA!
    http://www2.ibase.com.tw/productView.aspx?id=152
    Still doesnt solve the whole win9x thing, but it will boot to plain VGA really fast!
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013
  8. OP
    OP
    Wombycat

    Wombycat Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2010
    Messages:
    303
    Location:
    Bruthen, Victoria 3885
    That is the exact case. I am not sure this is actually possible. The alternative is to upgrade the machine hardware though the cost is upwards of 10k.

    I will keep digging
     
  9. SLATYE

    SLATYE SLATYE, not SLAYTE

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2002
    Messages:
    26,857
    Location:
    Canberra
    With lots of idle cores! Windows 98 won't use multiple cores, and it's unhappy with more than 512MB of RAM unless you do some messing about. Since you probably can't actually get 256MB DDR3 sticks for new boards, just getting Win98 installed could be a challenge.

    Via and Realtek have both been pretty good for Windows 98 drivers; I think Via still had full Win98 support for their new products up to about 2011.


    As a general rule, if you find a desktop (not workstation/industrial) board with ISA then it'll probably be fine under Windows 98. KT133 boards with ISA (to support Athlon XPs) exist, and on the Intel side you'd probably be looking for a 440BX board (bonus points if you use a BP6). Either will have reliability issues.

    The alternative is to try to find an ancient-ish industrial board. Supermicro's P4SCA looks good; three ISA slots and the i875P chipset. New enough to have handy features (USB2.0, SATA, DDR, Gigabit LAN) and old enough to support Windows 98SE. It looks like you can even buy them!
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2013
  10. Renza

    Renza Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    4,920
    Location:
    Melbourne
  11. rockofclay

    rockofclay Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2002
    Messages:
    1,676
    Location:
    Melbourne, 3056
    Yep, that and run dos/98 under virtualization. Apparently some drivers have problems with this card as the ISA bus only becomes available after boot. You should be able to work around this by booting the host OS with the usb2isa drivers and then booting the guest OS.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2013
  12. Aetherone

    Aetherone Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2002
    Messages:
    8,932
    Location:
    Adelaide, SA
    Hey, I said it doesn't solve the w9x thing, but perhaps it would be an excellent VM host of 98?

    You can come right up to the 875 chipset (soc478 P4) and still find ISA slots on genuine Intel boards. These would be the least likely to have issues at this age. My suspicion on a well cared for board of this era would be capacitors that are well past their use-by date (even quality ones have a finite lifetime).
    I'd be cautious about using an old AMD board of the same age. They were notably less robust than the Intel counterparts of the same era when new, let alone 10+ years old.

    An Intel i875P chipset board. :thumbup:
    Surprisingly cheap too :thumbup:
     
  13. Mathuisella

    Mathuisella Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    Messages:
    7,540
    Location:
    in your gearbox...grindin
    I would go the intel 875 board as well. Damn nice boards and would have a lot more support for them then, so even now with some decent "google-fu" you should be able to find drivers.
     
  14. Gecko

    Gecko Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2004
    Messages:
    2,715
    Location:
    Sydney
    ICP Computers http://www.icp-australia.com.au/ have various ISA boards available (not affiliated, just bought from them before).

    I know of another company as well, but currently have a mental blank on the name, I'll post back if I think of it.
     
  15. GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2003
    Messages:
    10,179
    Location:
    Briz Vegas
  16. Catweazle

    Catweazle Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    2,867
    Location:
    Sale, Vic.
  17. raz0r

    raz0r Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    Messages:
    437
    Location:
    Brisvegas
    this is happening more and more with industrial controllers. I was at a client's office the other day, they had good success with a re-purposed engineers workstation, running winXP with a USB<>ISA converter.
     
  18. OP
    OP
    Wombycat

    Wombycat Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2010
    Messages:
    303
    Location:
    Bruthen, Victoria 3885
    First and foremost, thank you to everyone's suggestions and advice, plenty of food for thought. :thumbup:

    I guess my real question now is:

    Should I try to find a older hardware and/or appropriate board/ram/cpu to run win98SE or should I go for a modern board with a usb->isa adapter and use a virtual dos/win98se on a modern OS?

    My concern with the more modern hardware is that via visualization will 98SE be able to use the modern usb2 controller to operate the usb->isa adapter and intern the isa card for the equipment?

    I am tempted to just order a usb->isa converter and test with a modern PC.
     
  19. Aetherone

    Aetherone Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2002
    Messages:
    8,932
    Location:
    Adelaide, SA
    Since its the cheapest R&D path, I'd start with this. VM'ing has come a long way in recent years.

    Perhaps even see if your software will run on a modern-ish OS - if XP emulates enough DOS for the app to run, you can use current hardware.
     
  20. Catweazle

    Catweazle Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    2,867
    Location:
    Sale, Vic.
    Agree with Aetherone, especially regarding checking the software to see if it'll run under XP or later. You haven't said, amidst all this, what OS the "automation PC" is currently running. If it is Windows, and XP or later, then you wouldn't have need to use an older OS version at all.
     

Share This Page

Advertisement: