What's your preference for amplifier sonic characteristics?

Discussion in 'Audio Visual' started by deluxe, Mar 6, 2018.

?

What's your preference?

  1. Neutral- the flattest, most transparent response possible- amplifiers should not have a 'sound'

  2. Biased- warm, dynamic, (insert adjective); I enjoy amplifiers when textured / flavoured /coloured

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  1. Hi-end Head

    Hi-end Head Member

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    I'm not an AVR person, So I'm not about to do a review on the why's and where-for's of the current crop of models on offer.
    All I'm saying with regard to AVR's is look at the better brands available, which are stocked in HiFi establishments and staffed by enthusiastic sales people, who won't be selling fridges next week.

    My interest was in Integrated amp's, which I've owned many brands over the years, But I have now moved on to totally separate systems, consisting of Pre / power systems. My two channel systems are all with mono-block amplification. But it's taken me over 50 years to arrive with such kit. Call me elitist if you like, But put simply, I have deep pockets, and I'd rather spend it now , then have some wanker spend it when I'm worm food
     
  2. Matthew kane

    Matthew kane Member

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    I wouldn’t even judge some of Earls amp as ‘warm sounding’ with no feedback they are pretty neutral or lean sounding even with tube rolling (which sort of does affect the overal tonality of the sound). To some this can be a hit or miss with what you like sound preference wise.
     
  3. Hi-end Head

    Hi-end Head Member

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    Thanks Matthew, I'm only repeating what I was told, As I've said before, I'm not a valve person.
     
  4. treblid

    treblid Member

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    So far we have Matthew kane saying room treatments is not snakeoil, but yet he didn't use one for his own setup because he uses hi end summit-fi headphones.

    Then we have Hi-end Head recommending Earl's amp because I like biased sound, but turns out he was only repeating what he was told....

    And here I am relying my experioence of why room treatments is a con. And I am being disrespectful, arrogant and have a wanker attitude.

    Yup there's a pattern here. So far it seems all audiophiles are jerks... :D :D
     
  5. OP
    OP
    deluxe

    deluxe Member

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    I couldn't agree with you more on that
     
  6. Hi-end Head

    Hi-end Head Member

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    Trebid has made some observations, which are all probably correct / wrong / left of field. But it just goes to show how diverse opinions are on this forum. And how friendly everyone is, excluding those on my blocked list. What a good idea that is.

    On the subject of room treatments, It would seem we have come a long way from Egg trays stapled to the walls. In by own case with three quarter length glass on three sides of a room measuring 7 x 5 metres. With a carpeted wooden floor. Heavy rug, and equally heavy floor to ceiling curtains, on all four walls does the job.
     
  7. Matthew kane

    Matthew kane Member

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    I can't tell if you're stupid or just trolling at this point. Just because I currently don't use room treatment doesn't mean I haven't ever used them for speaker setups and believe me as a diyer, designer and repairer of these sort of things as well collaborating with some of the best out there who know much more than myself I'am more entitled to this discussion then you'll ever be with your stupid responses.

    Your previous posts claiming room dampening/room treatment is snakeoil comes off as stating it as if it is a fact because you made it direct and succinct that it is snakeoil which I responded it is not. If your tone came off as IMO or my 2c, it'd be a different story. Not to mention it also depends on what you use and how you approach room dampening, it is not easy to get room treatment techniques right as you can do more wrong by wasting money on the wrong things then fixing the problem, i.e you're left with more omissions and problems than what you started with.

    By room dampening I'm talking about actual products designed to reduce or mitigate as much reflection as possible and as much absorption as possible in the sense like acoustical dampening foam, deadening material etc, along with careful or proper speaker placements etc.

    At this stage I'm responding to a brick wall so welcome yourself onto my ignore list.
     
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  8. treblid

    treblid Member

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    Luckily with you I don't have to guess. :) If people can continue to civil to each other, things will be nice. I could have stoop to this level. Instead I have explained, even provide a pictorial on what it's actually doing.

    The effect of bass traps is measurable and quantifable. The effects of speakers that are too big for the room, vs speakers that are just right are also measurable and quantifable. On hindsight I shouldn't have said 'small speakers'. It's more apt to say speakers that are not too big for the room. This is why I am OK with big flood standers as long as they have the space to breathe (and once you have done so, you don't need room treatments).

    Yes, you can definitely disagree, but others can do the comparison and work it out themselves.

    Don't shoot the messenger.

    The money one can spend on big nice looking speakers and then room treatment products is not a small sum.

    That same money is better spent on buying a better quality smaller speaker or gear instead. Look at the B.A.C.C.H. setup. Two small speakers (LS50) in an oversized room. Wouldn't make the front page of facebook or magazine covers, but ironically that will produce good sound.
     
  9. OP
    OP
    deluxe

    deluxe Member

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    I like your passion and enthusiasm, but the problem is that you've pushed your specific experience as fact, and been disrespectful to a few people in the process. If you can't see that- go back and read the responses

    Room/acoustic treatment is not snake oil or a con. The specific advice you initially followed was not right for your situation. Sometimes all you need is a rug, tapestry perhaps or as in Hi-end's case curtains; not necessarily bass traps /acoustic panneling / diffusers / exotic paint whatever. And yes you are right- sometimes speaker size makes the difference, but these things all tie together.

    Keep in mind a lot of people on OCAU and here in particular are enthusiasts and have a lot to offer, some respect goes a long way
     
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  10. Bourke

    Bourke Member

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    amp sounds make nice
     
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  11. treblid

    treblid Member

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    Experiences...

    As for pushing my specific experiences as fact. At least I based it on experience.
    So far room treatments is not done right in all the situations I have been to. Each and every time it is because the speakers are too big for the room. I had to force the folks to remove room treatments as the sound is too dead. And I explained it to them, some get it, some don't.

    But as you rightly point out it's just my experience. I don't read the Internet and take everything I read as gospel, so I don't expect people to read what I said and take it for granted. Just try it out for yourselves, and see how it goes.

    Audiophiles are a weird bunch. On one hand we will argue the recording studios know what they are doing, so they have room treatments, we should have room treatments. Then we go around and say those recording studios don't know what they are doing, all the recordings are mixed too loud and with little to no dynamics. Have you purchased and played back those Grammy awards albums? The audio quality is shocking!

    There was a time when I argued MP3 sound bad, and folks are calling me stupid because lossy MP3 is not distiguishble from lossless recordings. Some educated me 128 bits sounds the same as lossless and said they did a blind test and can't tell the difference. I was called names then too. Storing all my music in lossless format at that time is not cheap, but I still did it anyway.
     
  12. Hi-end Head

    Hi-end Head Member

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    I have difficulty with your statement, regarding speaker size and room dimensions

    The effects of speakers that are too big for the room

    Obversely if your room height is below two metres, then speakers 2 mitres and above will not fit. Or are you saying that volume capacity, will not and does not support, being located in a small room ?
    Obversely large speakers don't need to be played at full volume, and will perform just as well at lower volumes . However, a small pair of bookshelves, playing to the point of collapse, is also unexcitable, even if they do fill the room with sound, be it good or bloody terrible.

    It's a considered fact that large wattage amplification, produces a better result, then something struggling to produce the same result, by way of low wattage output. i.e. The difference between playing and singing.

    Please consider the following, I use a pair of open baffle speakers with a pair of 12 inch drivers [ see avatar ]These are driven by a pair of Rotel 1070's set up in mono-block configuration. Total output is in excess of 700 watts. Is this considered overkill, in a room 7 x 5 x 2.4 high. I would describe the sound as somewhat brutal, with the volume set at about 3. But they sing and the clarity of sound is something special. In my opinion, But we all think our systems are wonderful
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018 at 3:17 PM
  13. OP
    OP
    deluxe

    deluxe Member

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    Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter
     
  14. Hi-end Head

    Hi-end Head Member

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    Not another newsletter written by a Google expert
     
  15. flu!d

    flu!d Ubuntu Mate 16.04 LTS

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    Personally, I like to listen to SACD's in their full multichannel glory, not in 2ch. So for that reason I'll pick a multichannel AVR with quality class AB discrete amplification.

    At the end of the day it's a power supply biased by input current and the higher the cost the greater the placebo effect as you justify your purchase to yourself.
     
  16. Audionut

    Audionut Member

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    I prefer multiple point sources also. Because a room interacts with the sound waves inside of it, irrespective of the size of the point sources.
    Ambience is nothing more then reflections. So when you have this listening room that is introducing it's own character to the ambience, to me, that is not dissimilar to just listening to your favorite tunes through a mono 300-4000hz speaker. In either case, the sound you are hearing, is not the same sound that was recorded.

    So for me, the good thing about multi-channel (and everything has it's pros and cons), is that I can redirect the ambience to emanate from 360 degrees, so the room is dead, but the audio reproduction is not. It sure as shit isn't the same as being there during a live recording, but it sure as shit isn't a reproduction of a live recording that's missing C3, because C3 is smack bang inside of a massive null created by room interactions that are dictated by physics.

    That preference of mine may change in the future, but it will take education, because I am educated. I didn't pick my username because it sounds good, it's because I'm batshit fucking crazy and have spent some spastic amount of time educating myself in the area of audio reproduction. It's that same education that means I do not dictate to others how to enjoy their audio reproduction, not because I'm so well educated that I have all of the answers, but because I'm just educated enough to know, how little I really do know and understand.

    I've seen more then my fair share of dick and harry's, proclaiming to have some magical answer to everyone's problem, that somehow or another, no one else has ever thought about before. When dick presents his information in a formal manner, seeking clarification, criticism and most importantly, confirmation, on what he understands may be nothing more then bias, that's one thing, because with that come education for a multitude of parties. When harry comes along pretending like everyone else is as dumb as two knobs of goat shit, drowning in fucking snake oil that he bought off a salesperson, that's something entirely else.

    When I mentioned previously about my partners lack of ability to discern a window rattling, my education of that fact, didn't do anything what so ever to increase the enjoyment of the listening session for my partner. It actually detracted from my partners ability to enjoy the music, because suddenly, something that wasn't being heard before, was now being heard.

    TLDR: Don't be a wanker.
     
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  17. OP
    OP
    deluxe

    deluxe Member

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    How many SACDs are more than two channel? Never realised that was a thing. I assume that means you have multi channel players- are they quadraphonic or 5.1?
     
  18. Matthew kane

    Matthew kane Member

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    5.1 but very very small amount of SACD's have both stereo and 5.1 multichannel encoded data. Shortlived but Bluray audio is better.
     
  19. flu!d

    flu!d Ubuntu Mate 16.04 LTS

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    A great many SACD's are multichannel remasters and while 2ch sounds good, a well optimized multichannel setup sounds even better IMO. I'll have to give Bluray audio a go, is Bluray audio compressed or uncompressed?
     
  20. Audionut

    Audionut Member

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    Uncompressed (LPCM) or optionally, losslessly compressed (TrueHD, DTS-HD MA)

    edit: Dropping this link here: http://dr.loudness-war.info/
     

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